Arguing came naturally to Zola Nene as a child, so, naturally, when she went to university, she studied law. But midway through her degree, she realised she wasn’t cut out for the cut and thrust of criminal defence – “I’d be, like, crying in the courtroom,” she worried – so she called her dad and told him she would finish her LLB, but didn’t think she would go into practise.
He told her to come back straight away to the family home in George, because he wanted to have a serious talk to her. “Okay,” he said, “so tell me, what do you love to do without even thinking about it?” The answer came quickly: “I like to cook.”
And with that morsel of parental guidance, the legal system lost a lawyer, and the culinary world gained one of its warmest and most creative celebrity chefs. Zola started off as a kitchen-hand at a brasserie in Cheshire, England – “I peeled those potatoes with the biggest smile,” she recalls – and went on to study at the Institute of Culinary Arts in Stellenbosch back home.
Her speciality was a field called “food media”, which is all about writing, photographing, styling, and presenting food in the best and most appetising light.
Soon, Zola was in the spotlight herself, as the much-loved resident chef on the SABC3 show, Expresso. Now an award-winning cookbook-author as well, the bubbly Zola sat down with Ruda for a heart-to-heart chat about food, family, and the joys of doing what you love, and loving what you do.
Transcription of Ruda Talks Change with Zola Nene
Ruda Landman (RL): Hello, and a very warm welcome to another conversation about change. Where we talk about life and about how our lives change, how we make decisions sometimes, how life happens sometimes, and how we adapt and adopt new things. And my guest today, Zola Nene, TV chef and author of two international award-winning books, it’s amazing. I got one as a present today, the latest one, so I’m a very happy person. Zola, welcome. Good to have you.
Zola Nene (ZN): Thank you so much. Oh, what an honour. The honour is, ja, I’m, I can, I can hardly contain myself, sitting here, actually. Thank you for having me.
RL: You come from, born in Durban, but then grew up in Mossel Bay, George.
ZN: Yes. So, ja, born in KZN, my mom’s from Amanzimtoti, my dad’s from Umlazi, so grew up sort of in both areas, and other areas of Durban, and then my family moved to George when I was about five years old. My dad was working in the petroleum industry, still works in the petroleum industry, he was moving from SAPREF in Durban to a new plant that was opening, then called Mossgas in Mossel Bay, and my dad decided to move his family to George, not Mossel Bay, ’cause there was a bit more going on in George than there was in Mossel Bay. And ja, so he helped sort of start the plant and worked at the plant, and ja, we lived in George and I grew up in George.
RL: How do you think that affected your life? How, how was your life different if you had stayed in Durban? A Zulu girl growing up in Durban, as opposed to, ja.
ZN: Right, amongst Zulu people, right? As opposed to George, in sort of Afrikaans, like, community…
RL: Not, not Zulu people.
ZN: Not Zulu people, but, ja, the only Zulu family actually. I’m sure, ja, I, I think that it, it definitely had a change in the trajectory that my life took. I think that growing away, up, far away from my extended family obviously meant that my, you know, core family was much, much closer and that’s the reason why we are so close today because all we had was each other, in such a, a very different, ja, circumstance, with people who weren’t like us and, you know, didn’t speak the same language as us. So, ja, I think it definitely made us much, much closer.
RL: And you went to York High School…
ZN: I did.
RL: And your year was the first time that they, your, you were part of the first intake of black kids.
ZN: Well, in my primary school.
RL: Oh? Really.
ZN: Because I moved about. Yes. So I went to Holy Cross Primary Convent. Yes, it was a convent, I was taught by nuns. Yes, we were the first enrolment of black kids into that primary school. So…
RL: How did you experience that?
ZN: You know, I think that my parents did a really good job of sort of sheltering us as kids and not exposing us to the, sort of the nasties that were going on in terms of racial segregation.
RL: What year are we talking about?
ZN: That was at 1990, ja, so it was, ja, pretty, you know, it, it was in the…
RL: Before the New South Africa.
ZN: In the, before, and it was just as things were, were sort of starting to change, if you will. Ja, so I think that my parents did a good job of sheltering us from, like, the realities. And I actually remember in primary school, noticing that, you know, we were the only ones, which was different from the places that I was in in, in Durban, obviously. But sort of thinking nothing of it, ’cause I was a child amongst other kids and we were learning the same, etcetera, etcetera. And then we got to, I think it was standard 2, obviously I’m showing my age now, I’m talking in standards, but anyway. We started learning about history and about, about apartheid, and I remember being, like sitting in class going: What? Wow is this real? Like, what? And I went home and I said to my parents: They’re teaching us about the most heinous things at school, and my parents were like: Oh, well, you’re learning, and we told them. And that was the point at which my parents sat us down, they were like: Okay, you’re learning about it now, let us tell you our experiences, let us tell you what was actually going on in the world that we’re living in. And they told us about their dompasses and how my dad needed permission to be in certain neighbourhoods and how my grandmother, my paternal grandmother was a domestic worker, and how she was treated, and ja. And I was like, oh my gosh. So, ja, they really did a good job of sort of keeping that away from us until we were old enough to actually understand what, what it was and what it meant. Ja.
RL: And do you think that, that, growing up, your, the way you grew up, made it almost, equipped you for where you are now in a totally cosmopolitan, open environment, and just being yourself, and…you don’t look like a person with a chip on her shoulder.
ZN: I don’t and I, listen it’s all credit to my parents, they never taught me hate, they never showed me any hate that they may have expressed towards the government at the time or the, any other races, that never came up in my family upbringing. We were always encouraged, we were always told that you, we were fantastic and to play with everyone and love everyone and love abundantly. So I think that, absolutely, that is why I am a, a product of, you know, that upbringing, I don’t have a chip on my…
RL: Very lucky child.
ZN: No, absolutely. Absolutely. I have the most fantastic parents, who, ja, were able to just separate reality from our family, I feel, at the time.
RL: Ja. Ja. And then you went to Stellenbosch to do law.
ZN: I did. I did! I did.
RL: Why did you choose that?
ZN: Because…
RL: I mean, looking back, it just sounds really weird.
ZN: Like, why? Ja. Because, you know, at, at, you know, high school level when you’re deciding what your career’s gonna be, cheffing was never on, you know, on my radar. Just because at the time there was no, you know, chefs to look up to, there were no chefs that looked like me, that I could go, ooh, I could be that, so it never even crossed my mind. I was always talkative, I was always argumentative, so I thought, absolutely, I’m gonna be a lawyer. I’m gonna go fight the things and talk people under the table, and, and do that. And obviously the reality was not what it was. I loved my, my law studies to a certain degree, I loved criminal law, which I found really fascinating. But I don’t have the guts or the heart for criminal law, there’s no way, I’d be, like, crying in a courtroom, nobody wants that type of lawyer. So every other aspect I didn’t find interesting, so mercantile law, ja, commercial law, all of that I didn’t find interesting. So literally my second year exams, end of year exams, I called my dad and I said: Listen, I’m gonna finish – cause BCom LLB is a three year course and then you only, you specialise in certain – and I was like, listen, I’m, I’ll finish writing and I’ll do another year but I don’t think I’m gonna be a lawyer. And my dad, in that phone, I remember like it was yesterday, he said to me: Don’t write a single other exam, come home, and let’s talk about it. And I was like: No, just let me finish. And he was like: Absolutely not, you don’t waste one second doing anything that makes you unhappy.
RL: He must be an amazing person.
ZN: He’s amazing. I can’t gush enough about him. And I went home, and he sat me down and he goes: Okay, so tell me what, what do you love to do without thinking about it? What is it that makes you happy when you’re doing it, without you even noticing how happy you are? And I’m like: I really like to cook. And he was like: Oh, okay, let’s explore. Let’s explore that. And then he said, because the UK was the only real country at the time that took cheffing as a professional, profession, seriously, he was like: Go to the UK. Go and work in kitchens there and see if, if cheffing is what you wanna do. And that’s exactly what I did. So at the time you could do a two-year working visa, and off I went to the UK, found a brasserie to work in, in Cheshire. And…
RL: Tell me about the first day you walked in there.
ZN: It was, it was scary, ’cause it was, it was a professional restaurant kitchen, so lots of gadgets that I didn’t understand, you know, lots of angry males looking at you like, what are you doing here?
RL: And you’re 20.
ZN: Ja. Ja, ja. And as I went in there, as a commis chef ’cause I had no cheffing experience, and I was peeling potatoes, I peeled those potatoes with the biggest smile and I was so happy to be there, I was peeling carrots, I was doing all the, you know, mundane work, chopping onions – the stuff that the, the other chefs didn’t want to do. And because they could see the enthusiasm at which I was doing these, like, mundane jobs, they were like, oh, okay, let’s give her more to do.
RL: Yes.
ZN: Let’s give her more interesting…and that’s, that’s how I worked my way up in the kitchen. Ja.
RL: So your dad was, was so right – go and, go and try it out…
ZN: Exactly.
RL: And then you found yes, this works.
ZN: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I did that on and off for, for two years, ’cause I’d come home every now and then. And then when I came, came back home, I was like, yes, I wanna be a chef, I’m going to study to be a chef.
RL: Why did you make that decision? Why not just cook?
ZN: Ja, because, you know, you can, you can cook, you know, have a career just on the base of experience – and it’s important to have practical experience.
RL: Yes, yes.
ZN: But I knew, I, because I knew that it was a, a male-dominated industry, first of all I wanted to be able to walk into a kitchen and no matter what, you had to call me chef because I’ve earned it. I’d earned it because I had it on paper. And sometimes that’s the only way you can speak to authority, is by going, listen, you may not respect me yet, but here are the papers, here’s the proof, I am a chef, so you have to stand up and call me chef. So I sort of understood that that was necessary for me. And also, you know, first of all being a female, and then also being black in the industry as well. I’d never seen anybody like me yet, so I needed to sort of have a stand, I, I needed to get my foot in the door so that I could show you what I was, what I was doing. I needed to be taken seriously.
RL: It’s so interesting that women cook, but when you go into the professional space, it’s male-dominated.
ZN: I know! How?
RL: How weird is that?
ZN: How strange is that?
RL: Ja.
ZN: It is, it’s a very strange, strange concept, but that’s (inaudible).
RL: And then when you started studying? Did you enjoy it?
ZN: Loved it. Loved it. I was the oldest in the class.
RL: Yes.
ZN: I was studying at the Institute of Culinary Arts in Stellenbosch. I did a three-year course, so I studied, my, hot, hot kitchen, my patisserie, and I got my City & Guilds qualification, then I specialised in food media.
RL: What does that mean?
ZN: So that means, that’s why I sort of can do food writing, I can talk and do food demonstrations, food styling, food photography, that type of thing. So that’s what that means, specialising…
RL: Why did you choose to go that way?
ZN: Because, you know, I still couldn’t, couldn’t forget the fact that I like to talk. So, so I needed to be in cooking, but also be able to sort of communicate and talk to people. So I knew that that, I wanted to do it on a, you know, on a, a, a platform that I could interact with people and I think that the media sphere, in terms of food styling for magazines and publications, etcetera, gave me more of a voice.
RL: So did they actually train you in that field?
ZN: Absolutely, yes!
RL: In presentation, and that…
ZN: In presentation, in styling and interpretation of food, yourself.
RL: Oh fantastic! Yes.
ZN: All of that, ja.
RL: And then what was your first job?
ZN: So, as part of my, sort of, culinary arts specialisation in media, I got placed at Top Billing magazine, back then when it still existed, as food assistant – just sort of get my experience in the industry, etcetera. So I did that for six months, and that was sort of my first job. I’d worked in, in restaurant kitchens in South Africa as well, I worked at Le Quartier, at the time, which I was very fortunate to do. I worked with other, you know, amazing chefs, Chris Erasmus, who I met at Le Quartier, he’s an amazing chef who showed me a lot of stuff. So I, I had those jobs, but that last six months at Top Billing, I think that that probably impacted my life the most, just because that’s what, you know, the path in which my, I wanted my career to go. So I did that for six months and then my boyfriend at the time, he got a huge opportunity to go and open the Da Vinci Hotel in, in Joburg, so it’s, that was like 2010, 20, 2009, 2010. And I was like, oh, my love, I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go with you to Joburg, and I’m gonna move, we’re gonna make a life there, didn’t happen that way. But that was…so, I finished at Top Billing magazine, I finished my six months there, and I moved to Joburg. Was very unhappy in Joburg, then, then told a friend of mine, listen, I’m not gonna stay in Joburg, I’m gonna come back – that was six months after I’d moved there. I’m gonna come back to Cape Town and like, you know, find a job in a kitchen and…
RL: While we’re talking about change moments, why that decision? And, once again, it’s quite quick. I mean, you stayed six months, and, no this is not working, I’m going.
ZN: Ja. You know, what it is, Joburg for me, I love going there now to work, but it’s not a place that I can live in. Just because my support system, like I said my family is very close to me, and to be so far away from them was really difficult. Also, my boyfriend was a chef, in a, you know, traditional kitchen, so I never got to see him. He’s the, he’s the reason why I moved there, but I never got to see him. So it just, it sort of compounded the miserable state that I was in.
RL: And you were not working.
ZN: I was, I was working in, in catering. I was a catering manager for like a really, really huge company. So I was working in a corporate kitchen, if that makes sense. So it’s not, not a traditional, commercial kitchen.
RL: And, did you, did you enjoy that?
ZN: I enjoyed it, but I hardly ever spent time in the kitchen. I never really cooked, I was just supervising. So I was like, oh look, I’ve printed a new recipe. Here guys, try it out and see if everybody loves it. And that’s not really what, so I was very unhappy on many levels. So I told my friend I was moving back and, because the industry is so small, by telling that one person, they happened to mention it to someone else, and the producers of the Expresso morning show heard that I was coming back. And they’re the same producers who started Top Billing, Top Billing magazine, and they called me and they were like: Oh, we hear you’re, we hear a rumour you’re coming back. And I was like, it’s not quite a rumour if only one person knows, but cool. And they were like, we’re starting this brand-new show, it’s never been done before in South Africa – it’s like a variety morning show, cooking and pets and exercise, and I was like, ah that sounds brilliant! Yes, I wanna come and be the food stylist, so behind the scenes for the show. So the timing was so perfect. So I moved back and for about a week I did the food styling, so arranging chefs to be on the show, creating food content, finding trendy things to talk about etcetera. And the producer, Patience Stevens, she looked at me one day, when I, a very heated meeting, because you know, new show, lots of, you know, heated moments. And she looked at me across the table, and I remember thinking oh my gosh, what did I do, I’m getting fired. What’s happening! And she said: You, I want, you to be on, on camera. And I said, absolutely not – not what I signed up for, I’m happy just creating the content and like, you know, supervising.
RL: Why, what, what scared you?
ZN: Unknown territory, just uncharted territory, I didn’t know how I was gonna come across, it was live television, that whole concept scared me. I’d seen how many cameras were around the studio, I, you know, I’d seen it all happening. It just was so daunting.
RL: Yes, yes.
ZN: So for about a month I was like, absolutely not, no, not for me, not for me. Eventually I got so tired of arguing about it, I was like, fine, I’ll do it, just to (inaudible).
RL: And you’ll see it doesn’t work.
ZN: Exactly. I’ll do it once, this conversation will end. And I never got off the air. I did it that one time, and that was my life for, for seven years.
RL: And did you, did you, did you like the camera? Did you…ja?
ZN: I did! I kinda forgot that it was there.
RL: Yes.
ZN: I forgot that I was performing, and I was literally just doing what I love, in front of people. And ja, and that’s literally what started my entire career path.
RL: Ja. And the, the, the cookbooks? How did that happen?
ZN: Well that happened because my amazing publisher, Penguin Random House, they obviously believed in what I did, so they obviously saw me on Expresso and then they’d known that I was a foodie at that time. And, ja, they liked the type of food that I made, and they were like, let’s do, let’s do this together. And I was like, oh my gosh, yes, let’s.
RL: Where do your recipes come from?
ZN: I draw inspiration from a lot of things. Seasonality, a lot of nostalgia, so I like to think back to what my grandmother taught me, what my mom taught me, I sort of change it up and make it accessible for myself these days, for example. Ja, the seasonality, that’s played a big role, and also just, you know, experimenting. So, ja, trying new things out, new ingredients, ja.
RL: So do you start, you stand at the stove and you start cooking, and you keep notes about what you’re doing?
ZN: I do. I photograph everything.
RL: Ja.
ZN: So, even on my Instagram, I often do cook-alongs, because I literally photograph every step, just so I remember.
RL: Yes, ja.
ZN: So I don’t write anything down, I take photos, and then afterwards I’ll type out the recipe. Ja, so that’s how, that’s how I do it. I literally browse through markets or even the supermarket, walking around and I, I’ll see something and be like, ooh, I haven’t had that in a while, let me try something. And then I’ll go home and I, I mix it all together and I’m like, oh, that’s a great one! Let me share it or, you know, let’s keep that one to myself.
RL: And tell me about the Gourmand, what is it called?
ZN: The Gourmand, the World, the Gourmand World Cookbook Awards. It’s a mouthful!
RL: And you’ve been, you’ve won it now with both books?
ZN: I have! I have, yes.
RL: Tell me about the first time. Did someone call you and you thought this was the wrong number?
ZN: I, it, literally, that’s exactly what happened, the same scenario as when I got the email from yourself. I was in complete disbelief and shock. Ja, so I received an email going: Your first book, Simply Delicious, is the name of my first book, has been nominated for a World Gourmand Cookbook Award. And I was like, oh, there are cookbook awards? ‘Cause obviously it was my first, my first cookbook, so I had no idea. And I was like, oh. And they were like, oh, we’re having them in Yantai, China. I was like, woah, this is a scam, they’re having cookbook awards for the world in China…
RL: Used to be Nigeria, now’s a, now it’s China.
ZN: What’s going on?! And then I did some research and I was like, oh, they actually exist, they’d been running for about 15 years then. And I was like, oh wow, people in, in, you know, China and France know my book? Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. Was gonna go for the experience and, you know, just to, to be part of, you know, this cookbook crowd. And then my book won, and I was like, what has happened? I’ve entered the twilight zone. It was unbelievable and I was really, really excited. And then when my second book, Simply Zola, also got nominated, I was like, hang on, I must be onto something really cool. And I, I just, you know, the, the feeling was very different the second time around, ’cause I was like, okay ja, people understand what I’m doing. They understand the type of food that I’m trying to share, and that’s really cool. So I sort of, it was a pat on the shoulder this time, it was more, less disbelief and more like, yay.
RL: Ja. And it, it’s also now, you are part of that community, that international community. And that must…
ZN: Absolutely. And it’s not fluke this time.
RL: Ja. That must be amazing.
ZN: Amazing. Amazing. And still, didn’t think that I would win, went for the experience, this time it was in Macau in Hong Kong, or like an island off of Hong Kong, and I went for the experience as well. And I literally, when I tell you that I didn’t think that I was gonna win, I really didn’t. I always take my sister with, ’cause she’s my favourite travel buddy, and she’s sitting next to me and I’m like, oh no, my category’s probably over, but ja, this is still an awesome holiday, and I probably didn’t win, but it’s fine. And she was like, relax. And then they, they said my category, but I didn’t really register that they’d said it, and all of a sudden I saw the books that were nominated in my category up, and I saw my book. I was like, ah, that’s my book! And my sister started recording, I didn’t realize at the time, ’cause I know now because she gave me the video. And I was like, oh my book, oh okay, this must be my category. And I was like, oh. And then all of a sudden, and it was all very fuzzy, and all of a sudden I saw my, my book, in big, by itself. And I was like, that means I won! Oh my gosh, I won. And my sister captured that entire, entire reaction. And they were even on stage going, Zola Nene? Is she here? Is she here from South Africa? And I was like: I’m here! I was just shocked! So I ran on stage, and did an acceptance speech and it was, ja, really, really amazing.
RL: And then, a few years ago, someone asked you in an interview about dreams and plans, and you said you’d really love to have your own show.
ZN: I did!
RL: And now you have Celebs Feast.
ZN: Yes! Celeb Feasts with Zola.
RL: How did that happen? Did, did you initiate it? Did someone approach you?
ZN: Well no, Okuhle Media, the, the production company that I sort of worked with on a project, they called me in and they said, listen, we, we love what you’ve been doing for so many years on TV, it’s time that you got your own platform and we’re able to tell your own food stories however you feel. And I was like, yay, thank you for believing in me. And we literally sat, and they asked me in that meeting, what type of show would you like to make? And I literally just spewed, I was like: I wanna get to know people’s stories, and I wanna share my recipes with them, but I also wanna teach people, and together we, we sort of refined this idea, and created Celeb Feasts, and it was a complete collaboration. And literally the best working experience I have ever had.
RL: It works like a charm.
ZN: It’s amazing when you feel like your voice is heard. And, you know, a project can, can only belong to you if you are a true contributor to the actual project. And that’s exactly what Celeb Feasts is. And I’m so glad that it is what it is, it’s beautiful even if I say so myself, and it’s just, I love it, I love the show.
RL: And are you a planner? Do you have a five-year plan and, or do you just take on whatever happens?
ZN: No, I like to, you know, no I’m kidding! I’m kidding, I think I, at the back of my mind, I, I have a plan. I never say the plan out loud because I don’t ever want to…
RL: Oh. It might jinx it.
ZN: Ja. I never, exactly. Might jinx it and I don’t wanna be disappointed out loud. I’d rather, sort of, you know, change the plan in my head as things navigate very differently. But I do love to sort of take things, opportunities, that I may never have thought of.
RL: Ja.
ZN: And, ja, and embrace them as well. So I don’t like to have a, a concrete plan, ja, there’s room for movement.
RL: Okay, so, we’ll leave it at that and not force you to spell it out. And go to some personal stuff.
ZN: Yes.
RL: Something else you said in an interview that I liked was that your favourite Valentine’s Day is cooking with a, a significant other.
ZN: Yes, that, that would be nice. I haven’t had such a Valentine’s Day. But it would be, it would be lovely. Just because…
RL: Now, what would, what would it take to be the perfect significant other? This is not an advertisement.
ZN: Oh no, it is! I’m kidding, I’m kidding! Oh gosh. For me, I think that I, I look for soft confidence in a partner. I, I, I talk a lot and I’ve a very big personality, so the person that I’m with has to be confident within themselves – they haven’t, they can’t look for, for me to give that to them. Also, somebody who could just accept all of this crazy, ’cause I understand, I’m a lot, I’m a lot, I talk a lot, I do a lot, and I’m all over the place, so that, you know, my significant other has to be able to navigate that situation. And also somebody who, who just lets me be a partner, and not, not dictate to me, not control me in any way.
RL: Not have defined roles.
ZN: Absolutely. Not gender-defined roles especially, you know? So I’ve, I’ve lived a very long life and I’m a very independent woman, so the man that I’m gonna be with has to be equally independent, first of all, and has to accept that I’m independent. And, when we go on dates or trips, it’s gotta be a 50/50 thing. If you wanna take me on a trip, fantastic, I love being spoiled. Yes, I’ll go. But if I want to take you on a trip, equally, let me do it. It’s not the man’s responsibility. So I need somebody who, who understands that fully. Because, you know, it’s hard to give up independence once you’ve had it for so, for so long.
RL: This is being recorded in Women’s Month and I think it’s a wonderful message, because I think women also need to hear that. That we need to learn to stand on our own feet and be a, an equal partner.
ZN: Absolutely, you don’t need a, a partner to complete you. You just need a partner to sort of walk life with you.
RL: But you had a role model in your mother, hmm?
ZN: I did, I did. So my, my, my mom worked as a teacher for many, many years. She retired early, but she, for, for many, many years. My dad, engineer. And my parents were married in community of property, back in apartheid, as I think that’s the only choice that they had. So my mom earned her own money and my dad earned money, but my dad’s money was the family’s money, and my mom’s money was her money. So she would spend her money on, you know, clothes for her, clothes for us, treats for us, treats for the family, but my dad would take care of the finances. So I think that seeing a woman who had her own money to spend obviously clicked with me and I kind of understood what, what that meant and, and, how freeing that was. She didn’t have to wait for my dad to give her money to be able to spend money, it was her money to spend.
RL: And talk to me about home. Where do you live, why, what, why, what made you choose it?
ZN: So I have been living in Bothasig in Cape Town for the past two months. I lived in Green Point, Sea Point for about seven or eight years.
RL: In an apartment or in a house?
ZN: In a very small apartment.
RL: Oh.
ZN: Very small apartment. I, I loved to call it my, my little dungeon at the time.
RL: Why did you choose that?
ZN: I chose that because, when I was working at Expresso, it was very early mornings, so the commute had to be short, I could get to and from work in seven minutes in the morning. And it just, it made sense. I also didn’t need the space because I was young – all I was doing was working, sleeping, partying, and I needed to be in the buzz, close to town. And, and as I got older, I realized that, you know, the, the freedom of space, and also not having your neighbours on top of you is very, ja, is, is necessary at this age. So, ja, I moved to Bothasig so that I could have space and I could have a house with rooms and my family could come and live with me. Ja, and I, I’m loving it, I love the ‘burbs. It’s so peaceful. Ja.
RL: Ja. Ja. But, so you only moved two months ago.
ZN: Ja.
RL: How do you turn a house, just a…
ZN: A shell.
RL: I’m, I’m learning Zulu.
ZN: Oh!
RL: The difference between indlu and khaya. How do you turn a house into a home?
ZN: I think filling it with, with things that means stuff to you. So putting your…
RL: Like?
ZN: I’ve got so many family pictures in there. And also, actually, I moved my, my sister and her husband and her, and her, her son in with me. Because I had the space, I mean I might as well, and I’m hardly ever, I travel a lot. But I moved them in as well to add the warmth. But I think it, more than that, and if you don’t have an entire family to move in, not everybody does, I think putting things that mean a lot to you and make it feel like your own space. ‘Cause like you said, it’s, it’s just indlu, a house, a shell, until you make it yours and you make it your home. And just your own little nuances, maybe painting the wall a different colour, putting in my signature purple couch that’s so obnoxious, that nobody else would love; I adore it. And ja, and just, ja, making it comfortable for you, I think is, is, ja, is important.
RL: Well may you enjoy it.
ZN: Thank you.
RL: And may your time there bring you wonderful things, more wonderful things.
ZN: Thank you.
RL: And we’re looking forward to the next book.
ZN: Oh! Gosh, Ruda, no, too much pressure. Too much, too much pressure.
RL: Thank you so much for spending time.
ZN: Thank you, thank you so much for having me.
RL: Until a next time, good bye.
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