Sometimes, all it takes to change your life, and edge your dreams a little closer to reality, is a chance encounter and a few words in the right ear.
For Leanne Manas, fresh out of university, with a degree in communications and an Honours in English literature, that moment came when she caught sight of Aki Anastasiou, the 702 traffic correspondent and occasional presenter, in a coffeeshop in Joburg. What did she have to lose?
She went up to Aki, said hi, and told him of her wildest ambition: to become a broadcaster, just like him.
“Come on over,” he said, and although sitting at a desk in the studio, taking phone calls about traffic problems, wasn’t quite the dream she had in mind, it was enough of a foot in the door to kick-start her career.
Today Leanne, elegant, cordial, seemingly unflappable, is everyone’s favourite early-morning TV presenter, smiling her wake-up call to the nation on Morning Live on SABC 2.
She sat down with Ruda for a candid and revealing chat about the perils of live television, the ups and downs of her career, the joys and challenges of motherhood, and the horrors of her personal encounters with crime, including a home invasion and an armed robbery in a coffeeshop.
“You learn your lessons and you move on,” she says. “I keep on emphasising that the good far outweighs the bad”
Transcription:
Ruda Landman (RL): Hello, welcome to another session of the Change Exchange, where I’m welcoming my colleague, Leanne Manas, host of Morning Live. For how long has it been now?
Leanne Manas (LM): We’re going on for fifteen years.
RL: Fifteen years. And radio and MC, and whatever, but we’ll touch on all of that. Welcome, Leanne.
LM: So good to be with you, thanks very much, Ruda.
RL: Thank you. Um, did you always want to be a journalist? You studied in London first, and then how did that happen? Did you grow up in South Africa?
LM: Well, ja, no, I am South African through and through. I, I’ve always, I was born here, lived here. I, um, you know, this is where my heart and soul is, so it’s just been a great process. So, when I studied, well I suppose I sort of studied through a college which was affiliated through a college in London. So it was London Trinity, so I never actually studied in London. That would have been nice. It would be nice to add that to my CV, but no, unfortunately, that didn’t happen, but I did drama. No, I did though, you’re quite right though. I did study drama through London Trinity and it was sort of a really, um, a great thing to do, but whether or not it was a hardcore journalist that I always wanted to be growing up, the answer was simply no. That wasn’t necessarily what drove me into this career. Definitely not.
RL: For many of us, that is the case, that one thing leads to another. So, what was your one thing? Where did you start? You started at 702?
LM: I did, I did. I started at 702.
RL: Why, because you needed a job?
LM: Just because I got an opportunity, and that was it. It was an opportunity that was laid out on the table. Um, I had already studied. I’d gotten my speech and drama teachers. I’d literally finished my degree. I had an Honours in English Literature. I had a degree in Communications. I was a highly qualified individual, with nowhere to go. And nothing to do, that actually interested me, in the field that I had qualified for. And I thought, “Okay, I am desperate to get into broadcasting, particularly if I could in some way get into sort of radio DJing or do that.” I was sitting in a coffee shop and I actually saw, at that time, it was Aki Anastasiou, and he is still there at 702, and I thought, “You know what, I am going to go up to him, and I am just going to say hi”. And I am going to try and charm him. Luckily, it didn’t take that much charming cause he was, he was very open to say hello, which was great for me. And we chatted, and I took his number and I phoned him, and he said, “Come on over”. I came in, and he got me a job at the traffic desk answering phone calls. That was my foot in the door. And literally if I tell you my pay cheque was not even worth the paper that it was written on. Honestly, it probably cost more to write it on that piece of paper than it was to cash it. So, that’s it.
RL: And someone told you, you have no aptitude for this, find something else.
LM: Yes, it was a while. I had been working there for a while. And I had built myself up. And so, from the traffic desk, I kept my eyes open, and you know I was sort of clever enough to jump at opportunities, so whenever an opportunity came my way, I took it. So, it was call screening – I’m there, and I took it. So, for those of you who don’t know, call screening is when you answer the phone at a talk show, um, you answer and put it through to the talk show host. So, that is what I was doing. Um, if there was a position to read news or write news, I did that, and eventually when I got onto air. It was the biggest thing that ever happened to me, you know, but it was the dead hours of the morning, like three in the morning that I was reading – but that was fine. That is where you need to go to go where you know …
RL: I started in the middle of the night on Highveld.
LM: There you go, that is exactly where we were, and I was getting better and better, doing it for a long time, and people were telling me that I was sounding good, except for one person who told me, you know, you, this is not for you. And, and that just happened to be my direct boss. And it was that moment where I wasn’t asking to move from what I was doing. I was just asking for a little bit more, I felt that I could do more even though I was stretched, but I wanted more. And that is when I was told this isn’t for me, and I must find something else.
RL: And how do you respond because for a young person that can be completely deflating, and you can just say: “Oh well, she is probably right, I’m not getting this.”
LM: And that is, that is the problem cause you’re impressionable. And when it is your senior, and someone you look up to …
RL: And you feel insecure …
LM: Ja, and because you respect this person, you look at them, and you know, you take what they say very seriously. It took a lot inside of me to look at this person and understand that what she was saying was actually not true. And it may have come from a very wrong place. And I am not even sure why it was said to me, but it was that point that it was a turning point in my life, do I listen, do I say yes, you’re right.
RL: And it made an impression because you remember it to this day …
LM: Oh, I, it was amazing, it was like it happened yesterday, and it happened well over 25 years ago, but I still remember it like it was yesterday, and I remember still to this day never putting my foot back into those offices ever again after that meeting, and it wasn’t that I was fired, that is what I was told, but I realised there and then, you’re going nowhere. You are not going to go anywhere, you are going to stay at that desk for the rest of time. So, I picked up my bag and left, and I thought, I am going to prove you wrong, and I did.
RL: And went where?
LM: Well, that is when I moved onto, and luckily, I, my mom actually helped me out. She knew somebody that was working, at that time, it was Jonny Publishing, and they used to do news and radio for Classic FM, and they had syndicated radio stations that would supply news in those days to different radio stations, whether East Coast Radio – I’m not even going to throw all of the names at you because I don’t remember. But, there were a lot of them. They did business news for them, and coincidently it was the same offices that Summit Television used to broadcast from. And that was a financial channel at the time. The very, the only one that South Africa had. So, I walked in and I saw this, and I got this this wonderful position that I was lucky enough to get doing, you know, writing on news and whatever I could back to what I was already doing. Um, and that was where I had the opportunity to see live television, and then I realised, hang on a second, that is what I want to do.
RL: And the first time on camera, can you remember?
LM: Ah man, it was terrible. I was awful. I was really awful the first time because, and this goes back to my drama training. And I was trained in drama. And anyone who knows drama knows that you, you’ve already seen me with my hands. I don’t stop with my hands. I don’t know how to speak without them. And that’s probably the drama training. But, it was worse because it was my face as well. So, it was a, I was asked to audition for an IT programme, information technology. And I did this programme, and I giggle at the thought of it. I hope that tape has been destroyed in the archives of time.
RL: Why, were you completely over the top?
LM: No, really, it was like, I was giving a Macbeth performance of what had happened to the shares on the stock exchange. And they fell one percent. And I was like, I don’t know how anyone actually saw that I have a little bit of ability, or maybe I just came cheap. That’s how I got the job. Cause I actually have no idea how I got the job. But ja, that was my first audition. You know it actually took one talking-to from the director at the time. And he said, “Can I try something with you? Um, just you know, do something.” And he explained it to me, and I went back on camera, and it was like I was a completely different person. And I just got better and better, and better. And I was allowed to make more and more mistakes, and get better and better. And that was my luck, ja. And I got that position, and that is where I moved on from.
RL: How did Morning Live happen?
LM: Well, that was after I’d been at Summit for a while. And then I did that programme, and then I was asked to take over as an anchor, one of the main anchors of Summit because I really moved, and I sort of found my vibe. And then I went to go on and study economics journalism because they asked me to sit in the anchor chair. To be honest, I knew nothing about financial journalism, and I said: “Guys, you know what, I’m not going to do you any justice. I need to know more.” And it was from there that I went and …
RL: So, did you take a year off?
LM: No, while I was working, and I didn’t take the job to sit in the anchor chair. I went out reporting rather, and I said: “Rather let me get the knowledge first.” So, I did a Financial, Economics, Journalism Diploma through Rhodes University while I was working. And then I went out to company results, and I spoke to economists and found out about the movement of the rand and the movement of shares, and the GDP, and economics, and company results, and all of these things. And then I sort of began to grasp it, and then I started doing more and more anchoring. And I got more into it. And I would ask more questions that made sense. And people appreciated the questions that I was asking because a lot of people don’t understand business and they feel intimidated by it. But the reality was that I was asking the questions that people were too scared to ask. But I didn’t really care because I was genuinely asking them. And then it took off nicely. And I was asked to go and present two programmes that they wanted to initiate at the SABC. Um, Steven Gunyan, who was also working with me, he was taken to SABC, he took me along with and he said, “Look, I’ve got someone who I think can anchor this. Can we give her a rehearsal?”. Not a rehearsal, an audition. An audition, and I got them. And then I moved across there. And I did two business programmes on SABC 3. Business Update and Business Focus – one in the afternoon and one in the evening. And they were so popular, and they did so well. And that was great. Ja, so that was my move from there into the SABC.
RL: How did you work with the, with suddenly being so known. Suddenly walking, you walked up the stairs, and someone stopped you and said, “Please can I have a hug.”
LM: Yes, yes!
RL: It is, it can be disconcerting.
LM: It can be, but it wasn’t in the business, it wasn’t, it had nothing to do with when I was in business. In business, I would be approached by guys. And they would say: “Ah, man. Aren’t you that girl …”
RL: That chick …
LM: “… In business, ah, my grandfather loves you.” And I was like out clubbing at the time, and I was like, “Oh, thank you. That’s so nice.” Honestly, it was the moment my face hit Morning Live, and that was the end of that, you know. It just, you became a household name. And people, everybody watched that programme. And you know, it is. It is a blessing, a blessing that people do. They accept you, they let you come into their living room, into their most intimate time and space of their day. And that is their morning. Sometimes, you are the first face they see every single day of their lives. And that is wonderful. And so, when people do come and ask for a hug, and genuinely want it because they feel like you are family. I mean it’s a privilege, it’s wonderful.
RL: It’s actually a compliment …
LM: It is, a big compliment, ja.
RL: You are often in the field, and of course you do hours and hours live in studio, which do you prefer?
LM: Um, I, I enjoy both, but you know for me, um, I love being in touch with people. I’m very much so a people’s person. So, you know, I love to go out and meet people and do a lot in the field, which is nice. So, the adrenaline is when I am in the studio breaking news stories. Things that are progressing, and there is no script. The, the story is developing as we are live. You cannot write the script, you do not know what happens next, and you’re covering the story. And as you are covering, you are speaking, you are speaking to pictures, to events that are out there unfolding, and news that people are giving you. And that is where I know I am actually at my best. You know, if you put me in the position of a breaking news story, live in studio, that’s where the best of me comes out. And I love it, I absolutely love it.
RL: Um, and lately you’ve been involved in other things. I’ve seen Instagram pictures of you in the refugee camp, etcetera. Tell me about it.
LM: This has, I think I was telling you, just before we started going live, was the fact that, that was the best thing that has ever happened to me. Um, in, in all this time, and all the opportunities that have come my way. Being approached by, um, the UNHCR. That is the United Nations, um, High Commissioner for Refugees. I always get that one a bit confused. So, it is the UNHCR that was approaching me because they wanted to initiate a campaign that was completely focused on the refugee plight here in Africa, and it is called the Louko Louko campaign. Something fun, the word means nothing. But it is completely adopted and invented, and loved by Africa. And there are different ambassadors in each of the countries. And I have been chosen as one of the ambassadors for this campaign, in South Africa. And we travel to different refugee camps on the continent, and we begin to understand the plight of the refugee, and it is unbelievable. It is heart breaking, and it is one of the saddest things that you will ever encounter, but at the same time, it is one of the most uplifting things you will ever encounter because you then really realise and understand the true resilience of the human spirit. And what, how grateful people are. Like, you’ll speak to somebody, they will be sitting there, they will have absolutely nothing, and you’ll say, “How are you? Are you okay?” And they have absolutely nothing. And they will look at you, and say, “You know what? Life is good. There are no bullets. No one is shooting at me every day. This is great.” And you look around and think, “This is great?” And you never realise how spoilt we are, and how much all of this unnecessary stuff that we filter in our minds. How we create unnecessary needs, and when you have the barest of minimum, that is when you actually realise what is important in life, and that is what I realised.
RL: First-world problems.
LM: Ja.
RL: It is not just a concept.
LM: Ja, ja. It is a reality. It is incredible, really incredible.
RL: And Kilimanjaro for the Nelson Mandela Foundation, and what – Caring for Girls?
LM: Caring for Girls … So, that is another initiative that I embarked on. Something I never thought I would be able to accomplish was summiting Mount Kilimanjaro. And actually summiting Mount Kilimanjaro – not saying I’m going to, you know, try, I actually got there. And that was something that was just incredible. I, I went into that laughing that whoever came up with that great idea of approaching me to want to do something like that, because I thought: “Do I look like the type of person that climbs mountains?” And this was if you can reverse back to three years ago, where I certainly didn’t. Um, since then I have actually done a lot more than I ever in my wildest dreams imagined. But, it was great. I discovered a new side of myself, and I trained, and I did whatever I could do to get myself ready. But I think, fitness was one thing, but it was the mental strength that was the other thing, and being able to get there and do it, and not give up, um, through that mental strength was amazing. It was a massive learning curve. And anyone who has done it, knows that, that mental revolution you come back having undertaken is incredible. It is a brilliant, brilliant thing to do, if you can.
RL: Why, what do you mean?
LM: I think because you realise the strength of yourself.
RL: You find a side of yourself that you didn’t know.
LM: Ja, absolutely. You know I, I sort of walked, when I came down, and when I got to the top, you when you hit that summit, I mean the whole way, I was doubting myself from the moment. One thing that you realise is, is in life, we are – you are, Ruda’s greatest enemy, um, critic and enemy. Leanne is my greatest critic and enemy who is always telling me, “No, you can’t do it. There is no way you will ever be able to do it. There is no way, are you joking. There is no way.” I mean look …
RL: What were you thinking …
LM: Yeah, what are you thinking. And this is you speaking to yourself, and amazingly, other people see you in a better light than you see yourself. And I think that was the lesson that I learnt. If you can actually understand and allow yourself to reach your true potential, it is mind blowing what you can do. And that was something that I learnt there, not anywhere else. It was there that when you are pushed to your limits, and when you want to give up, and when you think that I can’t do that, there is no way that I can make this, and you actually do, and you look back at yourself and I have never done it before then, and I, you know, actually say: “Jeez, Leanne, I didn’t realise, well done. That was amazing.” So, ja, I think that was for me that mental strength, it was mind blowing.
RL: You are one of the nation’s darlings, but then there’s someone on Twitter, who suddenly says: “You’re only getting this job because you are white and you’re only hanging on because you’re white. And you are not good at what you do.” How does, how do you work with that?
LM: You just, it. I’m not going to say it’s not. You know I am not going to say it doesn’t affect you, because it does. It does affect you. You go out and you give your all, and you open yourself up and you, you know who you are and what you stand for. And that in itself I think will give me the confidence to overlook and sort of say, “Oh, give me give me a break.” But when you see it, really, honestly, can we move onto more important things and things that actually are truthful but, but the reality is, is that it does get to you, and I never, ever, ever respond to those kinds of things because you know, you’re giving people a voice that … don’t really actually deserve to have that voice, but I just see how racially charged we are as a nation. And I understand that. I’m not, I am not living in a box, I’m not. I’m living in the same county. And I understand that. I see it every day with my own eyes, it’s a living reality for every single one of us. However, when somebody judges you purely on the colour of your skin, that’s when you gotta put your foot down and say, “You know what? Sit down, have a cup of coffee with me in my home. Look at how I live my life and then judge me, and if you still don’t like me, or even actually don’t even come to my home, just sit and have a cup of coffee with me, and if you don’t like me, then with pleasure. But do not judge me purely because you look and see a white person and you hate me for being white.” You know what, that is just life, we are all different and that’s what makes this world so interesting, so, you know, that’s where you have to draw the line because you cannot live that way, and we will never move forward as a nation, ever. If that’s the way we think, and if it is, then we must all just separate and we go and live here, and you go live there, and then we go back into this, this, this world that makes no sense whatsoever, but that’s not the world we live in. So, if we can learn to live with one another and really understand each other, you know what, you might actually find heroes in people that you never believed would be your hero.
RL: And when I looked at that Twitter thread, the other part of it is of course the support. The people who came out and said exactly what you’re saying. Like come on, get back inside your box.
LM: That amazed me because when I, when I, when I actually just responded, you know, when you do it, and I think a million times before I do because I never respond. I will not respond, but this time I actually just thought: “Ag, let me just put this out there.” I wasn’t being horrible. I was just genuinely saying: “Know me and then hate me, but, but please don’t judge me, and you might actually just like me and not the colour of my skin.”, but, but the reaction was amazing and I knew it could go either way, where other people could jump on the bandwagon and say, “Oh my God, you actually right.” I mean, I can’t take her. She’s terrible. And you know, she, it’s this whiteness. It’s that, it’s this, she doesn’t belong. She doesn’t deserve it.” But amazingly, it had the absolute opposite reaction and people were saying, “Can you get over yourself?” You know, I mean, really will you stop obsessing with the colour of people’s skins? Let’s just move on. Let’s just get together. Let’s get on. Stop being like that. I was blown away. So yeah, I, which for me speaks to the true feelings of South Africa because generally that’s how I think South Africans feel. But there is a small portion that fuel the anger and the hatred amongst us. And that, of course, you know, is, is, uh, it’s a, it’s a force that we need to work through, but, but nonetheless to know the, the greater community want this place to work. What a feeling. That’s good.
RL: You also briefly had a shop in Sandton. A gift shop.
LM: Ag, I did, I did. Ja, I went into the retail world, which was another lesson.
RL: Where did that come from?
LM: No idea. It was one of those moments.
RL: It sounded like a good idea at the time.
LM: Ja, it sounded like a good idea at the time. And it was a good idea at the time. It was a wonderful idea. There was a gap in the market it. But then we realised when we opened the shop why there was a gap in the market because it was just not sustainable. You know, we had, we had a brilliant concept, there was a gift store that you came in. We wanted to provide local goods that were very affordable. We wanted to give you that personalised service in a, in a shopping centre that was otherwise full of just international brands that were not local. They didn’t speak local. We wanted to support local and make it something that you could walk in and feel, you know, okay, great. This is, this is stunning. I’ve, I’ve come in, I’ve got a great … And that’s what we would do. Come get what you want. Go shop, we’ll wrap it for you. We’ll make it look as beautiful as we possibly can. You come back, pick it up, and you’re done. You know, and that was kind of a service that we wanted to give, and that’s what we did. But man, when at the end of the month that would come and every little last cent of money that you made, went to went paying the rent and the staff, and then there was nothing but zero left in the bank account. Then you realised this is not working. So that was. Yeah, we tried it for about three and a half years. And uh, yeah, just, you know, in this day and age, unfortunately, and I think I speak to small business owners, the big guys, they don’t care about you. They don’t. And it’s a horrible thing because there will still be that escalation clause. They’ll still be the guy that’s, you know, your, your big retailers, they, the ones that will pay nothing for rent, but it’ll be the little guy like you who is a family-owned small business running by yourself that will be paying the premium for everyone else to be there. And I’m, and I’m sure I’m speaking to a lot of business owners, and I commend people who do that, but unfortunately it just for us didn’t work, and we were lucky to be able to get out of it. But um, but it was a learning curve, a very good learning curve. But unfortunately, yeah, some business ventures don’t work.
RL: You’re married to a businessman …
LM: I am.
RL: How did you meet Marc? How did you, how did the spark, how was the spark ignited?
LM: We, we sort of, we, you know, I was, I was waitressing at a restaurant in the beginning when we first met, and I was trying to get money to go and do a sabbatical overseas with, with, with my two girlfriends and we were going to go for like however many months, and that was exactly what I was doing and that’s exactly what I did.
RL: Before you started working?
LM: Yeah, no, this was before this was that thing after studies, you’ve studied, now you’re going to go overseas and you’re just going to have fun. And that’s what I was doing. I was working to get the money to go overseas. I went overseas, and I met him while I was waitressing at this restaurant. Nothing ever happened. I just saw him and thought he was really, really nice. And then it was only after I got back in a couple of years, even after I’d got back after lots of having fun and going out and clubbing, and doing whatever I used to do, that I saw him out on, you know, on the prowl one night. And I thought, “Ah, there you are, I haven’t seen you since those days.” It’s amazing. I mean, this must have been about six years later. And uh, you know, I actually went up to him and said, “My God, it’s so nice to see you, haven’t seen you in so long.” And that was that. He took my number and he phoned me, and we sort of dated ever since, and finally got married after that. And had two kids and here we are, can you believe it?
RL: So, what’s the, what’s the connection? What is it that attracted you?
LM: We are both. We think so like and are yet so different. We are completely different. You know, we, we are, I am a Libra, he is a Virgo. I am all over the place, he is so straight and narrow down the road. But the reality is, is that we work, the opposite thing does actually work. And we both are working for that same outcome. We want the best for ourselves, our future, our children. We’re both passionate about South Africa. We are both passionate about education. We’re both passionate about, um, building the best lives that we possibly can for ourselves and our family and, and, and a work ethic, but at the same time, still enjoying our family and life together. And it’s very difficult to actually get that mix between you as a couple because it’s very easy for you to get wrapped up in your own world and disappear, and then sort of meet up and then disappear.
RL: But, so, how do you do that practically? Because there are only so many hours in the day, so many days in the week. So how do you do it?
LM: You climb Kilimanjaro together. You include each other in your lives. Um, you know, I, I often hear couples saying, “Oh man, I’m just, you know, I just want to get away drinking with the girls, or I want to go out with the boys and just get away from the family, or a I want to go away for a weekend or whatever.” You know? For us, it’s about going away together. It’s about bonding together. The Kilimanjaro thing, he came with me, we grew as a couple through that and, and that’s what we try and do. I’ll never embark on something alone, if I can embark on it with him, I will. And that, that is, that’s the, that’s our secret. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the secret to you can grow as an individual, but sometimes you grow so much that you grow apart, and you grow out of each other. But we are trying to grow together and that’s, that for now is where we are at, and it’s working, and yeah.
RL: And it’s a conscious decision …
LM: And it’s hard work, it’s hard work. A relationship takes a lot of hard work.
RL: I always say: “There is no ‘it’. As in, it doesn’t work. There’s just you and me. There’s no ‘it’ outside of us.” And we better make it work.
LM: And we better make it work. This is it, I don’t feel like going through this again, if that’s okay, but you know, as it stands right now, it, it, it does, it works, but it, it’s, it’s hard. I mean there are, there are times when you fight, and you know that as a couple you do. It’s normal, but you’ve got to give each other that space to, to get back together and flow. What are we fighting about? Seriously? I mean honestly, forget about it and move on.
RL: And the children, how did they change you? Change the dynamic?
LM: They are, the kids and, and, and everybody says it – kids change you and they change you for the better. They are just the best little things that have ever come into my life. I mean, they, they are, they are. Wow. I didn’t know I could do that good. That was great. They are just fantastic. So, there’s two of them. The one is six now and the eldest is nine and they – they just full of love and they are at that wonderful stage right now. So, I don’t have teenagers. I don’t have to deal with that yet. It’s coming. It’s very close. So, we’re at that beautiful stage of moulding these new little things and they, oh, I love them. Absolutely love them. I really do. They just, they bring all the joy. They really do that. They’re incredible.
RL: You still very close to your family, your parents. What do you see in the way that you work with your kids that you recognise from the way your parents brought you up?
LM: A very similar … It’s incredible. It is. It’s like that book, that secret book that gets handed down. It’s, it has invisible ink. You can’t see what’s written on it. It just sort of comes in you and then you sort of recite from that book and then you’re like, hang on a second. When did I learn those words? You know, and that is what your mother used to say to you, but that’s it. I think it’s you learned from your parents. And your parents do, they mould you. And they. And I was very privileged. I was, you know, I had both my parents, I still have both my parents, they are both, you know, they are married to one another now. They, they, they are going onto, what is it, forty-six years of marriage, forty-seven years of marriage. I hope I don’t get it wrong, but I mean it’s incredible that I still have that example of a strong union and a strong environment.
RL: And the kids have still got their grandparents.
LM: And the kids have still got their grandparents that they, that they adore, and they are always there, and they’re so hands on, and I have that on both sides, you know? So, I, I am so, so lucky. Nobody … But I was always that type of mother, I wasn’t that the type of mother that had my baby and suddenly kept it like a lioness and wouldn’t let anyone near my baby. I want to do. I wanted everyone else to enjoy my children as well because. Because they give so much joy and, and, and, and it’s worked, you know, I, I can see the joy that they’ve bought to others and in turn, I can see how happy they are with these people in their lives that they have so close to them.
RL: You’ve also shared the experience, the in an, in a DVD and book on it. What did you call it, Antenatal Guidance?
LM: It was, it was a book and a DVD that I worked together with, um, a company actually a beautiful company in Port Elizabeth that put together a and an antenatal DVD, and it was all about the journey of childbirth, and from the minute that you found out that you are pregnant, until that day you actually deliver, and a few months afterwards. So, it’s into the breastfeeding. It’s into whether or not you have postnatal depression, or whether or not you look into whatever it may be, those kinds of feelings that you not too sure of when you have your child. Um, so it’s, you know, up to the end, and it was, it was an awesome project to work on. It really, really was just to educate people, and sometimes you’ll find that moms, you know, as much as it was just in a book form, there was also a DVD, so you could sit and watch it while you were breastfeeding, or you’re sitting with a kid or whatever it was. So, that was a really nice thing to work on as a project. Very, very nice.
RL: And to share your own experience in that way must have been wonderful.
LM: It, it, it always is. And a lot of people that have seen it and had the copy and, and they, they, they found it exceptionally helpful, and there are so many different tools to help you out there, but still I, I just think it’s, it’s nice to, to, to actually see someone and hear their story, and realise, okay, I’m not alone. This is hard. This isn’t easy, and we can get through this, you know, this is fine. We’re good.
RL: What do you want to teach your kids? What must they take into life?
LM: I, for me, I, I want my kids to respect people. I think more than anything, that was what I was taught from when I was as young as ever. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you do, from the minute I get out of my car in the morning, every day of my life, there will be whoever it may be, the person who is mowing the lawn to the person who is checking my bag, to the CEO that I walk past in the passageway, to the person that means nothing in my life. I will say hello to them and treat them in exactly the same way, and I want my children to do that too, is to respect people and in return you will get respect and that, that that is a fact. And then, I think the other big lesson that I want them to do is to, is to follow their heart. Not my heart and anyone else’s heart, but to follow theirs because there is no truer heart to listen to other than your own. And. And that’s for me the best lesson. I was allowed to follow my heart as much as my parents wanted me to maybe go and study, especially my dad, something completely different, especially, you know, he would’ve loved me to be a speech therapist or to have done something in a more professional degree field as opposed to just being very general. He allowed me to go and do what I thought was the right thing to do, and I think that I, I may just do the same for my children. Allow them to follow their heart and may they succeed in life.
RL: And tell me something about your physical space. Why did you choose the home you’re living in? Do you go for big trees? Do you go for big windows? Do you go for space?
LM: Ah, security? You didn’t. You didn’t add that one in. I go for security. That’s probably the first thing. And then everything else that I love around that will, will come. So, we initially had, had a terrible crime incident happen, and then wanted to move into a, into an estate, which I felt was very, very safe, and sort of found a place that spoke to me. I loved it. It was free flowing, open, open spaces. To answer your question, I love open spaces. I love airy places. Um, and I love homely places, and this is exactly what this felt, even though at the time it was just Marc and I. And then as soon as we started, we started, you know, having a family, it started getting a bit smaller, and then by the time we had two, it got even smaller. And then we thought, okay, let’s look in the estate if we could find something else, we could not find anything else that we love. And we decided to build on and we did. Wow, and that was, that was trying.
RL: It tested everything.
LM: That tested everything, but the result is we really are living in a place now that is ticking all our boxes. We are so happy. It is, it is everything we want. And we’re very, very lucky. You know, we safe, it’s open, it’s airy, it’s bright, it’s homely, and it, it has love, and that for me is a home, I love it.
RL: Leanne, just to go back to that traumatic experience that you had, you were robbed at gunpoint in your home. I’ve always said I will never judge how anyone responds to that because I simply cannot know. I have not gone through that. It’s like birth. Um, many people choose to leave South Africa. Um, what influenced your response? How did you work with it? How did you find your equilibrium again?
LM: It was hard. I mean that, that, that was a, it was a tough moment in 2007. That’s when it happened. It was 2007, and four-armed gunman in my house followed me into my, into my driveway. The gates sort of, you know, the usual story as everybody, as everyone has a story to tell and uh, you know, they came in with guns, took me to the bedroom, and forced me onto the ground, and it’s a long story, but, but, but a happy ending story. I’m here to tell the story and, and I’m okay, but to get over that was very big. It took a lot of work. It, um, uh, I, I was absolutely devastated and traumatised by that. And you know, funny enough, did it enter my mind to leave the country? No. I don’t know why. Maybe I’m stupid. Honestly. And I do say that I do say that in all, in all fairness, but maybe it was because I didn’t have children. Maybe that was why, but it did not enter my mind. I, in fact, I just thought, you know what, these, this is a small element. There is better out there. No, this is not going to get me down. They are not going to win. And I clawed back, and I clawed back my confidence, and it was less than seven months later, I was sitting at a coffee shop with my very best friend. We were having coffee and the next second, um, the coffee shop got robbed as well as the fruit store next door and the butcher. 15 armed gunman opened fire while we were sitting there because there was a reservist who thought that he would try and stop the one that he saw, and then they all came out and started shooting, you know, I sort of fell under the table and jumped on top of my best friend, who was shot, by the way. And she left the country. She did, it changed her life. She subsequently is living overseas, and it was the best move she ever made. But, um, again, I didn’t have children and, and that I think was a big, big step for me and, and I worry every single day about their safety, and I do hope that, that something changes and that maybe again, I said maybe I am dumb. I don’t know how many more signs I need, but I am trying to make it work to the best way that I can. And that’s why I think security for me is of utmost importance. But yeah.
RL: Lessons that you took out of that?
LM: Well, I mean, you, you learn your lessons and you and you move on, you move on and you believe that the elements, and I keep on emphasising that the good far outweighs the bad. Um, you, you’ve got to be vigilant. You’ve got to be, you’ve got to live consciously, you’ve got to, you’ve got to live in the real, the real world. And I don’t think that it’s any better anywhere else. And I’m not saying that I’m with blindfolds on, is that I could, yeah, you can run away and go live in another country. But that’s not home. This is home. This is where I, I, I love, this is what I love, and I want my children to. And they love it here. They don’t want to be anywhere else, and I don’t want to be anywhere else. And the reality is, is that I am seeing positive changes in this country. And in it, it, it is a reality. I mean we seeing, we seeing proper, proper changes taking place. And, and I do hope that, you know, it’s not just talk, it’s not just politicking, but that it is going to give us the results that we deserve as a nation. We’ve been through a lot as a, as a nation. We are still a young nation. We are, um.
RL: But we have been amazing.
LM: We have and will continue to be amazing. We’re strong, we are resilient. And I just hope that my kids have the most incredible life, the life that I’ve had as well. It’s been amazing so far.
RL: From your lips to God’s ears.
LM: Yes, absolutely.
RL: Thank you so much for being with us …
LM: It’s a pleasure.
RL: For taking time, and all of the very, very best.
LM: Thank you, Ruda. Great speaking to you. Thank you.
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