Hey, have you heard the one about Goliath? No, not that Goliath. His shot at the big time fell short by a long shot. We’re talking about this Goliath, Nicholas, from Eldorado park, south of Johannesburg, a stand-up kind of guy who is fast making a name for himself as a giant of South African comedy.
The really funny thing is, he’s not even the only Goliath in town. As part of the comedy threesome, Goliath & Goliath – which includes Jason Goliath, his cousin, and Donovan Goliath, no relation – Nicholas is proof that destiny awaits those who dare to make fools of themselves in public.
Nicholas was working as a call centre operator, a job he loathed, when he rose to the challenge of taking the mic at open night in a Joburg comedy club. His unscripted routine earned him plenty of laughs and a return gig, by which time he was a little more polished and part of a team.
With his engaging manner and down-to-earth, wryly observational humour, Nicholas has turned laughter into a way of making a living and loving what you do. He sat down with Ruda to talk about the Change Moments that have defined and redefined him, the perils of moving into the same house as your mother-in-law, and the challenges and joys of raising a family, a process sure to give any standup comic enough material to last a lifetime.
Transcript:
R: Hello, and welcome to the Change Exchange, where our guest today is Nicholas Goliath, who has the longest lashes that I’ve ever seen on a man.
N: Hello Ladies.
R: And you are part of Goliath and Goliath.
N: Yes, I am.
R: And you are funny for a living?
N: That’s true. That’s what I do. I tell jokes, but it’s possibly the best thing I could be doing with my life right now.
R: Nicholas, this is about Change Moments in one’s life and we were talking earlier, and probably the first big Change Moment was one that you didn’t really have any say in. When your parents moved out of Eldo’s – Eldorado Park – to Florida, when you were 11?
N: 10, turning 11, ja.
R: Your life would have been different without that.
N: Ja, it would have been completely different. And I do say it’s something that I’ve never thought of before. My parents moving out at a time where I, as a kid, you leave all your friends behind, you’re leaving everything you know behind.
R: Were you furious?
N: Yes, I remember being furious and … because you know, the mood at the time when we’ve just come through apartheid and we’re moving to a white area and I was going to go to a white school … And growing up in Eldo’s, you know – or in any location, I would assume – you sort of latch on to your community and to who you are. And like I say, I remember being furious, because now it’s leaving everything behind and when I look back on it now, it’s possibly the best thing that ever happened in my life. I speak well, clearly now – not that people from Eldo’s don’t, but there’s just that speeding up … once you change your accent or you change the way you perform or your act in public, then people think that you’re trying to be something you’re not. And ja, it’s just, definitely … That was the first big change in my life and definitely the most positive change. I actually want to say to my parents sorry for fighting, mom, dad. Thank you for doing what was best for me.
R: What did you want to be when you were growing up?
N: So, I had lots of dreams all through my youth, of being a pilot. That was my dream. I always wanted to be a pilot. It’s just something in my head about being in control – I wanted to be a commercial pilot, more specifically. And just being in control of something as massive – at the time it was the Boeing 747, now it’s the A380 – there’s something amazing about having full control of a massive machine like that. And just the freedom of no robots, no speed cops, you can do whatever you want up there. Well, obviously within limits. But that was my number 1 dream. Unfortunately I was a very lazy scholar and at maths …
R: And one needs maths …
N: Maths and science – my two weakest subjects – are vital to be a pilot, so I never made it that far.
R: So, can you remember when you knew that this wasn’t possible? When you made a different decision.
N: I’d have to say it was when I matriculated in 2002 – because I applied for SAA’s cadet pilot training program. I applied for that and they didn’t even come back to me. But I knew when I was applying that my results weren’t good enough and I think I was sort of relying the odd chance that I was going to come in, like just one coloured guy to fly a plane. But ja, that didn’t happen, and then what happened is with I suppose the majority of non-white South Africans is, what I found is my parents forced me to study, and forced me to go to university because those were the options: either you were going to study or you were going to work. There’s no break. No gap year. No time for playing games. And because I wasn’t ready to work, I decided to go and study, but I had no idea what I wanted to study. So I ended up wasting two years of my parents’ money and time trying to do corporate communication and marketing communication at UJ. Which also just didn’t work for me. It was something that I just wasn’t interested in – I was studying just for the sake of studying or the sake of learning.
R: And then how did that next decision come about? How did you finally pluck up the courage to say to your parents look, this ain’t working?
N: Okay, so it was less about plucking up the courage and more about having not been to classes, having not written an exam and being put out …
R: Bad boy!
N: I’m sorry! But ja, it just got to the point where I wasn’t going to lectures. I think I was in a very sheltered life. My parents were very protective over me and I was – and am still – an only child. So I was very protected – I wasn’t really allowed to go out and my friends would tell me about going to clubs and parties and being out all night, and I had no idea. And you know what they say – when you leave a sheltered life, the minute you have a little bit of freedom. I was ‘here’, 24/7, just party lifestyle going on and ja, unfortunately I didn’t make it through. That was the first year. Second year, the same thing. I reapplied for a different course, got accepted, and did exactly the same thing that I’ve done the year before. And that’s the point where my parents said okay, enough is enough. It’s time to find a job. And I started working. I worked in a call centre – that was my first … My first call centre ever was Telkom 1023, directory enquiries. Possibly the most boring job ever. To just sit in front of a computer, answer the phone and say: “Yes, oh, you want to go to dinner? Yes, cool.” And then send them the result for the contact number. And then I got stuck in call centres for nine years.
R: Good heavens! Can I just go back one step. What would you say to young people now, who have to make that decision. Go to university, or start a job or whatever. What makes the difference? Why, I mean, you say you wasted two years of your life, two years of your parents’ money. How does one not do that?
N: Well, for me it’s a matter … I believe that you’ve got to as a person stand up for yourself. Because coming out of matric you’re still a child, you’re still under your parents’ roof. So they sort of force you, if … I’ve got a cousin who has just matriculated now, and she’s so passionate about dance and so passionate about marketing, and you know … She got accepted, she got four distinctions in matric, got contacted by Wits and they’ve accepted her … She applied for a teaching degree earlier in the year … You know, that’s when you’re not really sure what you want to do. She’s applied for that and got accepted and now she’s accepted that, whereas she wanted to go to IMM to go and study that, but I feel like … I don’t know, because maybe her parents are going to watch this and think: “How can you say that.” But anyway, I feel like they sort of forced her, because you go to Wits for Wits’s sake. Because Wits is this great institution and if you’ve got a piece of paper from Wits, the world is your oyster.
R: Stamp of approval.
N: Which for me, is not really important. Look, it’s important – education, obviously at the end of the day is vital. But what’s more important or the way I see it that you’re not going to waste your time or your parents’ money is by simply just doing what you love. Find what you enjoy doing and find a way to monetize that. And coming out of matric it’s sort of difficult. I wouldn’t be in comedy for five years or ten years after school – I didn’t know what I was going to do. So you know, it’s such a difficult thing, because nobody places a lot of importance on happiness. All through your career – your school career – the importance is based on education and performance. But happiness is not a factor, because they make it seem like when you’ve got this performance, where you’ve outperformed everybody else – you can have all the money, you can have all the success. And that’s going to make you happy … And it doesn’t work like that. Because I know so many people who financially are over exceeding in life, but when you see them on a day-to-day basis they’re the most unhappy – the most, just generally sad people.
R: I’m afraid that I my point in life, I see friends who are waiting for retirement because they’ve gone through their lifetime – through their career time – like that. And that is incredibly sad.
N: Ja, because like I said – I worked in call centres for nine, almost ten years. And I remember waking up every single day hating my life. Hating my job. You know, I’ve heard it said so many times where you work just hard enough to be broke. To make money to be broke. Because all you’re doing is you’re paying your bills at the end of the month and you’re making sure you’ve got money to get you to work for the rest of the month and then at the end of the month the cycle starts again. So you know, you never have sort of disposable income to do anything. I remember when my first son was born, it was still 2009. I was in a call centre earning next to nothing and I was working eight to ten hours a day – weekends as well. And it was just such a miserable time. I couldn’t do anything for my son, I couldn’t take him out or buy gifts or sweets or … And you know, it’s just the small little things that bothered me.
R: Ja, and then, what happened? How did that door open?
N: So, I’d have to say look, if we’re talking about Change Moments … My first son being born, my marriage, my second son being born was a huge Change Moment, but I think the biggest change was realising that comedy is what I want to do. And that I’m actually good at it!
R: How did that happen?
N: I knew, I’ve always known I’m funny. I was always … I was the fool of the class. Just doing anything to make people laugh and as life progressed, got older … I was that guy who friends would say to me: “You should be on stage.” Because we used to go and watch a lot of comedy – I’d take my friends and go and watch a lot of comedy. It’s always been a sort of past time of mine, as well – watching comedy. And every time we’d go my friends would say to me: “You can do this. Why don’t you do this.” And eventually I built up the courage. So the true story is probably nine or ten, eight or nine years ago was the very first time I actually got on stage where I’ve been going to the Comedy Underground in Melville, which was run by John Vlismas, took a card from them, because my friends had always been pressing me to go. And eventually built up the courage to make the call. And the assumption was – I’ll never forget – it was a Tuesday. And I sat in the call centre and I had the card with me and I built up the courage and I phoned them and I thought in my mind how it was going to work is I will call and they will say: “Cool, come for an audition, or whatever.” And I’d be put on in a month or two.
R: For five minutes, five thirty in the afternoon.
N: Ja. And what happened is I called the Tuesday, and I spoke to Taffia, who is John’s partner. And she said: “Cool, we don’t do any auditions. You come in, you give us your five minutes and if we like you, we’ll call you or you can just book another spot.” Whatever. Cool. “Come in on Sunday.”
R: And this was Tuesday?
N: Ja, this was Tuesday. So then, at that moment I’m like no, this can’t be. And I kept it very quiet through the week, just told a couple of close friends and family, whatever …
R: And were you practicing?
N: See, this is the thing! So the thing is I actually never had any idea what comedy was about. The first two people I’d seen perform comedy was Joey Rasdien and John Vlismas. And if you look at their style of comedy, it’s very conversational, so it doesn’t look like they’ve practiced or anything like they’ve got material. And in my mind, that’s what comedy was. You get up on stage and you say whatever’s on your mind and if it’s funny, people laugh. And that’s what I did. First time I ever got up on stage …
R: You didn’t have a script?!
N: Not a clue. I had no material, I hadn’t thought of the first joke I was going to do – nothing.
R: This is jumping off a cliff without a parachute.
N: Head first! Not even … And so, anyway, Sunday night rolls around I get there and John Vlismas is hosting and it’s mad. People are killing themselves – they’re having the best time. And John introduces me. And that’s probably all I remember of that night. John introducing me, I went onto stage – I don’t remember how long I was on stage, I don’t know what I said, but I got the best reaction I have ever received. People would die – they were hosing themselves. It was amazing. And I remember getting off stage and handing the mike back to John and he said to me: “You’re funny, come back.” And I was like … People have been telling me I’m funny, I know I’m funny – I’m going to be so rich and famous, this is amazing. And then I phoned – that was the Sunday night. The Monday I called and made another booking in another two or three weeks. And I went back and this time I was confident, so I let everybody know I’m going to be on – please come and check it out. And I went with the same mentality – you know, that I don’t need material. I’m going to be funny. And that’s where I saw my first flames, as they say. I saw flames – I left the stage – I don’t remember what I said, because I didn’t have material. But I remember leaving the stage saying: “You guys are a k*k audience!” And walking off. That was like, then I was like this is not for me. Then one more spot – so I did my first three spots probably within a two month period, and the third time I was on I sort of had an idea that I need to have some sort of structure, you know? Something to fall back on. And I went out and I performed and it wasn’t great, but I didn’t die as badly as I did the second time. And Riaad Moosa was in the audience and he came up to me and said: “Wow man, that was so great – you’ve got something. There’s something nice about you. Just keep doing what you’re doing. But the thing is by the time he had come to me, I’d already made a decision that comedy is not for me. I was not going to make what I love my job. So I decided that was not going to happen.
R: Goodness, why not?
N: Because I was young and ignorant. That’s why! So I’d already made the decision that it was not for me. And that was the last time. Then I stayed off the scene for years. And my cousin, Jason Goliath – the big guy from the Castle Lager ad – he’d just actually finished his first Castle Lager Run – his first set of ads. And he was on set with Bryan van Niekerk and Siv Ngesi who were on set with him. And at the end of the shoot they had a discussion with him, saying to him: “You know, we’ve had such a great time. We’ve never had so many laughs and so much fun.” And they said: “You’ve got to try stand-up comedy.” And he said – you know, he’s braai funny. And he said: “No, I’m braai funny. Like, around a braai I can make a couple of guys laugh, but stage is a different thing – not for me.” And we were having – and strange thing that happened – it was Mother’s Day shortly after he’d done this and had the discussion with the guys, and we were sitting around the table, Mother’s Day lunch at my place, and we had a couple of beers, so we’re in a nice conversational mood and he’s telling me this story. “Ja, you know, I think I’ve got to get on stage.” So he says to me: “But I’ll do it if you do it with me.” And I’m cool man, I did it a couple of years ago and I’d love to. Let’s make it happen. And I phoned and I made a booking and I remember I spoke to Taffia and there also going to give me a booking within a two-month period and I explained that I want a space where there’s two open spots so that we can both perform on the same night. And she gave me this huge speech about how this is not a game, this is something serious because now I think that I’m playing with my cousin, whatever, whatever … And she gave me the space. And we performed on the third of July 2011 for the first time, and we both destroyed it. And I did the same stupid thing that I did before, going on stage with no material, but I had a t-shirt on that said: “Are you free tonight, or is it going to cost me?” And that’s how I started. I started going to the ladies in the corners and I wore this t-shirt for you and I’d move on to the next one and I wore this t-shirt for you. “Oh no, there’s my husband.”
“Who put all married people in the front!” And there’s this girl sitting next to her and I’m like: “Are you married?” And she’s like: “No.” And: “I wore this t-shirt just for you.” And from there it just exploded. And we had the best time. And we came off there … I remember having a discussion with James saying we can do this. And he made me a promise that we were going to go to every single gig until people believe that we are comedians. So we made sure every Sunday we were at the Underground. Any other gigs that were happening, whether we were performing or not – we were there. Two months later we decided to start our own gig, and …
R: When did you know that you could actually earn a living off this?
N: That actually only came ….
R: Because you were still in the call centre during the day?
N: I was in the call centre during the day, performing comedy at night or going to gigs at night. I think we started our first gig already, so I must have been in for six to eight months before I made the switch. And it wasn’t a complete switch from corporate to comedy. So what happened is Jason used to do work for Makro as an in-store announcer. “Ladies and gentlemen, make your way down to the …” That guy. So he’d been doing that for years and years. And he had – he was in the process of moving out of that business to focus more on comedy and his corporate gigs, and which opened the position for me. And I went in, did a little bit of training with them and that worked out. And I did that for probably two years, which was a lot easier, because I was working less hours …
R: And that could pay the bills and you had more time.
N: Exactly. And it gave me more time. I wasn’t forced to be in an office, which was fantastic and it was something that I … I knew I always wanted to do something where I got to meet people and interact with people on a daily basis. And that gave me the perfect opportunity to practice my craft as well, because the more time you have on a mic, the better you become on stage in terms of your performance and everything like that.
R: You learn to do it by doing it.
N: Exactly. And that I did for two and a half years. And that was absolutely fantastic. And in that process, I then started as a corporate comedian as well – perform corporate events, perform comedy and slowly I made my way into the corporate MC-ing of events, which was slightly more money, better status, easier work and that was … So probably I’d say two years ago? That I realised that I could do this for money. And the best thing is that I would still do it for free, because I didn’t start doing comedy for money – I didn’t start doing comedy for fame. I started doing comedy because I love what comedy does to an audience. I always say to the guys, for me it’s true happiness – the audience experiences true happiness while a comedian is on stage … If they’re good. If they’re terrible, then it’s… But like, so the way I put it is for the 15 minutes they see me on stage, that you’re watching me, you forget about your problems. Your work stress, your husband, your wife that’s cheating, your kids that are on drugs or gangs or whatever the problems are. For that time that you see me on stage, you forget about that and you’re focused on what I am saying. If you enjoy what I’m saying, you’ll laugh and you’re happy. And that’s the best experience. I always say to guys comedy is a gift. When you give somebody a gift, the reason you give them a gift is it’s their birthday, they’re celebrating something, and you want them to feel happy. So comedy is also a gift, because I’m making the audience feel happy. But the benefit I have is that I can give this gift to a 100 people, to 1000 people, 10 000 people at the same time. And it’s just the most amazing thing, to make people happy. It’s unbelievable.
R: Have you seen the comedy scene in South Africa grow in the time that you were there? Because 20 years ago, 30 years ago when I was a young person in Johannesburg – I wasn’t aware of comedy at all?
N: Well, the thing is that comedy hasn’t had an industry in South Africa … You know, there’ve been guys like your Joe Parkers, your Mel Millers who have been performing comedy for years and years. But if you speak to them and you hear their stories, they were going into venues, into bars, into clubs and performing to people who didn’t understand comedy, who don’t understand comedy. And slowly building the network and educating audiences. Because that’s the most important thing – if you don’t have an educated audience, comedy is not going to work. But now, there’s a boom. Like I think since Trevor Noah launched his first DVD – I think it sort of piqued the interest of South Africans, because firstly, I feel like South Africans would go – Kevin Hart is coming shortly – I think his tickets are selling for like two grand or three grand a ticket – it’s ridiculous. But I know that there are people who have never been to a South African comedy show who are spending that to go and buy a ticket because what comes from outside of South Africa – the perception that if it’s bigger, it’s better. And you know, the thing for me is that there are so many guys – like the industry now is growing. But we need South Africans to come and obviously support. And our audience is growing as well every week, so people are interested every time somebody’s on the news, comedians are in the news … Trevor Noah … I keep going back to Trevor Noah because he’s obviously the biggest influencer and like I say, he’s piqued people’s interest. So now, the audiences are growing. And what you find is like with me, I was an audience member one day who loved comedy and eventually took the step. So now because our audiences are growing so much, the industry is growing with it as well, because more people are exposed to comedy and experiencing it. And more people believe that they can do it. Lots of people are telling their friends: “You should be on stage. Not you should be on stage. Some of you should stay in the call centre.” Like I said, when the first time I called nine years ago, I got a spot within a week. Now, we run a gig out in Maboneng at the Pop Art Theatre, and we do open spots there and that gig we’ve booked three months in advance, and we’ve got a list of about 40 guys that are waiting – just for open spots. These aren’t even your regular acts or red liners. Just open spots – new guys who want to try. So it’s a booming industry, lots of people are getting in and I feel like corporates are also sort of siding with comedians now. I think the days of having your Top Billing presenter who just speaks well and … I think those days are gone, because we …
R: You bring something extra.
N: We bring something different. You know, comedians … Our job is to think on our feet. So when you’re having problems when the sound is not working or the lighting is not working or somebody’s delayed or whatever … You know, I was at a gig where they had one of the sort of Top Billing presenters – I’m not going to mention his name. Shame, sorry. But there was a problem backstage and what caught my attention was the fact that he couldn’t deal with it. All he said was we’ve got a technical problem, come back in ten minutes. Take a ten minute break. Whereas I feel like as a comedian …
R: You could have filled that time.
N: He could have used those ten minutes to entertain the audience, to interact with the audience, which just makes it a more entertaining event. Makes it more exciting – because we’re funny as well. We tell jokes for a living. It’s our profession – it’s like having a chef in your kitchen, when you want to have the best, you need the best.
R: And the personal life of Nicholas Goliath? Where did you meet Yasaar?
N: Oh, man. So Yasaar and I met …
R: She’s beautiful, from your pictures.
N: She is. In real life she is – the pictures don’t do her justice – and she’s mine! So we met at university – my second year.
R: So you did get something out of it?
N: Something. The best thing – I didn’t get a certificate or a degree, but you can go onto my profile and look at my wife! But yes, so we met at university – she had matriculated in 2003, so we met in 2004. Together 12 years … And you know, at the time it was just a fling, it was having fun and then when she wasn’t there, I realised that I miss this person, to have her around. And she’s just been so great – she’s such a huge part of my growth and my development and that’s where the emotion comes now, you see … I will talk slower so I don’t cry. But yeah, the thing is, as a comedian I don’t have set working hours, so I work at night a lot of the time, I work weekends and it also involves a lot of travel. And I can guarantee you that there’s not a lot of women out there that put up with a husband who is almost never there.
R: How do you retain the closeness?
N: Quality time over quantity time. When I’m at home, I don’t WhatsApp – I don’t communicate. I’m off social media because I want to spend time with my family because I have such little time. I’ve also got two little boys, which are absolutely amazing, who are absolutely amazing. And the important thing for me is just spending quality time – letting them know that even though I’m not there, I’m always there. They can always come to me. I posted something on Instagram a couple of days ago – a picture of my little boy that I’ve taken from above, he was looking up at me. And I tagged the … caption I used was ‘I want to be the type of dad that my kids can always look up to’. Yes … So, you know, it’s so difficult. Firstly I’m so lucky to have my wife, because she supported me from day one. In the first two years, it was difficult because she’d been used to having a man who was there 24/7, except for the eight hours at work, I was there for the rest of the time. And to make that change from always being there to me really being there and it was a bit of a struggle in the beginning.
R: What does she do?
N: She’s an insurance facilitator for Old Mutual. So she does a lot of training and recruitment, and …
R: But it’s regular hours and very settled.
N: Yes, regular hours and fairly settled. But she’s also in the process of growing and changing and developing. And she also worked in a call centre for years and years. And then eventually, two years ago moved over to facilitation. And since she’s been there, she’s so much happier. She’s always wanted to teach – that’s been her passion, to teach. And now she’s teaching adults, but it’s roughly the same thing. And she’s so passionate about it that she goes the extra mile. She’s always doing more. And now people are noticing – she’s always been since the call centre … always does extra, goes the extra mile, but for some reason was never noticed in the call centre. Now, in facilitation, people are noticing her and she’s been selected for development courses and she goes on a conference with the execs and … so she’s also … She’s got a eight to five, but because she’s so driven and passionate about it she works a lot on it as well.
R: And is there a bigger family that supports you in looking after your boys … Because I mean, two busy careers makes it difficult?
N: It does. She’s actually … She was on a conference last night, so I was alone with the boys last night. But there is a big family. So her parents also help us quite often, so do mine, just in terms of when there’s last minute things, because quite often I get like last minute calls for shows or castings or whatever. And she’d be busy, so our parents help us quite a lot.
R: And what does that mean to you? To have that whole support structure? Because I never had that – my parents … I came from the platteland and so I was always a nuclear family.
N: So I wouldn’t be where I am if it wasn’t for the entire structure and … you know … It’s … I never expected to be where I am. And even for my parents … The same thing … They also had to adjust to the career change that I made. Once again, I was always there – I was a family man. And I remember in the beginning of my comedy career, my mother was also on me with ‘you’re never home, you’re always late’ … Because I’d come home, had a few drinks or whatever and I just kept saying to her ‘I’m not partying, I’m working. Yes, I’m having a few drinks. Yes, I’m socialising, but it’s networking – it’s making the connections with the right people so I can develop, so that I can grow.’ Because like I said – the industry is booming at the moment, and if you are not there, they forget about you like this. They forget about you like that.
R: It’s quite hard to keep your priorities straight, as well. Because you could get – especially when you’re young – you could get swallowed up.
N: No, definitely. And it’s such an easy thing … Because it’s always a party. I work at parties, so every time I go out of the house I’m going to a party. Whether I’m going to work or not, there’s going to be a party. And I’ve seen guys that have come into the industry and get absorbed by the party lifestyle, but I was lucky in that I had Jason with me, we started our paths together and we sort of motivated each other. And he said to me in the beginning, because in the beginning we were coming home like this – sideways – you don’t even remember how you got home. You don’t know if you Ubered or you drove, and we just got caught up in the beginning. And he said to me something that his granny had always said: “The parties don’t get finished. You get finished.” And then we realised we are actually good at this thing and it’s a business. If we’re not working, we’re not getting a salary from a boss at the end of the month, so if we’re not working, there’s no money coming in. And that realisation, I think, was what sort of switched … We can still go out and we can still party with the best of them, but we also understand that every time we leave the house, it’s got to be for business. Strictly for me. I’m leaving my family at home – I’ve got to be able to come back with something. I don’t want to leave the house and came back and just say I was gone for no reason. I’ve got to come back – whether it’s worth financially or somebody that I’ve met. You know, sometimes for connections that I’ve made. It’s got to be worth it for me to leave the house. I’m not leaving the house to just go and party anymore.
R: And are the boys part of that – the added sense that here are two little people that I am responsible for?
N: Definitely. They are the main driving factor. I’ve got my eldest son, Matthew, he’s turning seven next month. And he’s at the DSJ – the German School in Auckland Park, which is a private school and – as you know – private schools are not affordable. But DSJ is possibly one of the most affordable private schools as far as that goes. And I just realised that I don’t want my kids to have teachers that are not at school because they’re not getting paid. I don’t want my kids to not pass because they don’t have textbooks for their maths or whatever. And I made the decision that I’ve got to send my kids to a private school where it will be easier for them. Because the easier it is, the easier it is for them to maintain that excitement about learning. My son started grade one yesterday, and the look on his face – the excitement about going learning. And I was saying to Kate, my cousin: “That’s the problem – people lose that excitement for learning, and that’s when you start doing poorly at school.” And now, at the school, it’s set up for them to be educated. And it should just maintain that excitement and obviously I am going to be a part of that. But ja, the thing is that I look at my kids and they rely on me for everything. From emotions, financial – everything. And I don’t want to disappoint my kids. That’s what drives me. That’s what makes me get up and be funny every day.
R: Ja, because it really is a very serious job.
N: Ja, it is. So I did a little calculation for myself a couple of weeks ago, and I said to my wife I realise the scary part about kids is to raise one child from kindergarten to matric plus the extra year that they do for A levels, costs a million rand.
R: Sjoe, one shouldn’t do sums like that.
N: One should. Because now I know what my target should be – I’ve got a target of two million rand just for education. I haven’t paid for food, clothes, Christmas presents, birthday presents, all that stuff. It’s just education. So now I know that I am not working hard enough. I’m doing well, but I’m not working hard enough. And I want my kids to have the best of everything.
R: Well you promised to cry, so let me try.
N: I’m just fighting the tears!
R: Can you remember the first time you held Matthew?
N: Yes. I remember I burst into tears. It was a Caesar so there was a whole lot of drama because I’ve changed companies just before my wife fell pregnant – well, she wasn’t my wife at the time. So I’ve changed companies and I had medical aid and then I moved over and there was no medical aid, it’s a helluva long story so long story short I didn’t have a medical aid. I had to pay cash and it was a huge thing and I was so stressed because I was going to a government facility to the clinic my wife was going for check-ups and you have to keep going to a government hospital because you have to do it like that, otherwise cash. Thirty grand to have a baby. Exactly. And anyway, so what happened is that we were going to a gynae as well – just a private gynae to get the check-ups done, and according to the timing of the gynae she was at 39 weeks. And when we went to the clinic, the clinic said we’re only at 35 weeks. Come back in two weeks. And we were like: “No, this baby has got to come out, or else there is going to be complications.” And they were like: “No, according to us till 38 weeks it’s not going to happen. Come back.” And we went back to the gynae and he said: “Look, the options are find the money and pay a private clinic and then we can do it like that, or you can go back in two weeks and I can’t guarantee you whether your son is going to be alive.” And eventually, luckily I had a family member who was financially stable enough to assist me and we went to Flora Clinic – fantastic hospital. And my wife gave birth – well, had a C-section and my son was born and he had all these little bubbles on his skin, from – you know when you’re in the water too long? You shrivel up? He had all these little bubbles that burst because the amniotic fluid was drying up – because he was actually at 39 weeks and the cord was around his neck and they found all of this out as they pulled him out. And … In that moment I realised how lucky I was to have my son, number one, to have the family and the support that I had that I could do that. And it made me think about people who don’t have that support or lose their kids, because of simple, stupid technicalities and … there you go. And I remember holding him – it was just the most amazing experience. Just … That was when I realised this is a lifetime commitment. This little boy is going to be … Whatever he becomes … I’m a huge part of that. And that’s when I decided that my family has got to have the best. They’ve got to come first in everything.
R: So it changes the focus.
N: Definitely. I was a party guy, man! I was out with my friends late at night, partying all night, all weekend. And it was great – I don’t regret it at all. But just … Having my first son completely changed the person I was. And it made me realise that I can’t always party. Ja, it’s fun, but …
R: I have to grow up?
N: I’ve got to grow up at some point. And I still feel like feel like a laaitie at times, but it’s just such a mind-blowing experience, realising that you have to change. You have to develop. You have to grow – you can’t stay in the same place forever.
R: What do you say – if I may – that as a woman – so many men walk away?
N: It’s the easy thing to do. It’s an easy thing. I say it’s an easy thing because – like you say – so many men do that. It’s tough to accept the responsibility. It’s tough to have to man up. At the time my son was born, I was earning R4000 a month. Like I said, I had enough money to be broke. So for me it would have been … If I think financially – it would have been so much easier for me to say no, because we weren’t married at the time it would have been easy for me to say no, I’m not going to be involved and I’m not interested. But I must say I’ve had … My father, who taught me what it means to be a man.
R: You’re lucky.
N: And I can’t imagine not having him around.
R: And if you say … What it means to be a man?
N: To accept the responsibility. To do what you can to make your kids proud. And ja … So I stepped up to the plate as they say, which looking back on it now is the best thing that I’ve done in my life, because if I think about it – if it wasn’t for my son – my first son – I’d probably still be out partying. I’d probably be out stuck in a call centre – because I had no reason to leave. Because I was okay – I was okay being broke, making enough money …
R: Live from day to day.
N: I could survive. I had enough money for cigarettes, for petrol, for food. I was fine. Because my focus was on partying and it was easy. And like I say – if I hadn’t stepped up, I don’t know where I would have been today.
R: They say adults don’t make children – children make adults. And it sounds as if this really happened to you.
N: It’s exactly what it is.
R: Tell me about the home that you’ve made? The physical home? Where do you live? Why did you choose that?
N: So I’m still out in Florida in the same home my parents moved to. What happened is that they built a cottage in the back for my grandparents, many, many years back – for them to move in when they were older and my grandfather wasn’t well. And they moved in there and my grandfather passed away and my granny moved to my mom’s sister, and so the cottage was open. So I moved in and eventually Yasaar moved in with me, and nine months later the baby came. And we stayed there for a while and then one of our other family members or other families in the family had a bit of a financial issue and they lost their place and they then moved into the cottage and me and my girlfriend at the time moved into the house with my parents, which obviously is not ideal. You don’t want to be living in the same house with your mother-in-law. In her house and live under their rules, but we have a baby – we know what we’re doing, now you come and tell us how to live our lives. So it got a bit tense, and there were constant arguments and … A little silly thing, which eventually made me move out, moved in, rented a place in Discovery for a year, and that was probably three or four years back. And then what happened is that my parents … Because it’s a big three bedroom house with a yard and swimming pool, whatever – they were now alone in the house and it was just too much for them to handle, so they were looking at selling the place and I was obviously looking at getting a place because I’ve got now … A little son and another one on the way. And you know, the time that we spent apart – because we were apart for a year, when we moved out. And it strengthened the relationship that I have with my parents, because now we’re not in each other’s faces and it gives me an opportunity to actually miss you, instead of waking up and saying: “You’re going to be here. Are you looking at me?” And so we sat down and we had a discussion and we agreed that they’d move into the cottage, and I move into the house and then we stay at home, because it’s nice to be there for their grandkids and my kids have a pool and a yard to play in and then we made the financial things happen and sorted the bond out and whatever. And for me it was so great, because it was the same home that I grew up in. And my little boy sleeps in my old bedroom,
R: There’s a sense of stability.
N: Ja, it’s just something so nice. And it’s a nice, safe neighbourhood and obviously it’s got its little crimes and whatever happens, but I can say we’ve been lucky. We’ve had one small incident, but nothing too serious. And I just like that it’s my childhood home and now my kids get to grow up in it. It’s like you see on all these American TV shows – generation after generation in the same house. And eventually it becomes like a family …
R: And it works for you.
N: And I just love that – there’s a couple of renovations I want to do just to make it my own as well, because now it still sort of feels like I’m living in my parents’ house, but ja, we’ve got a lifetime to sort it out.
R: Well, all the very, very best.
N: Are we ending now?
R: We’re ending here now.
N: Just make me cry and then ja. You said he’s going to cry and then … ja.
R: Double achieved – let’s go! Thank you so much and all of the very, very best.
N: Absolute pleasure being here with you, and all the best for you. This is such a great initiative, man. We need to talk about these things.
R: Ja, it’s great fun. So, join us again, or go looking for other conversations. They’re all amazing like this one was. Till another time – goodbye.
N: Be happy!
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