For today’s journalists, the advent of social media and the 24-hour news cycle has kick-started a revolution in the perpetual-motion machine of information.
And right there in the engine room sits Katy Katopodis, Editor in Chief of Primedia’s Eye Witness News, heard on popular radio stations like 94.7 Highveld Stero, KFM, 702 Talk Radio and Cape Talk.
But as much as Katy thrives on the adrenaline of the ever-shifting agenda, she admits that she herself has had to be kick-started into accepting the challenges and opportunities that have defined and driven her career.
She sits down with fellow news-junky Ruda for a heart-to-heart on the art of chasing the big story, and and figuring out how to balance broadcasting with bringing up children. Because news, just like life, is what happens while you’re making other plans.
Transcript:
R: Hello, and welcome again, to the Change Exchange, where today we’re talking change to Katy Katopodis. She’s the editor in chief – she just said she was once called the editor and chief and she never corrected that person…
K: I loved it!
R: The editor in chief at Primedia’s Eye Witness News, and also now a familiar face on television with the Oscar Pistorius and the Shrien Dewani trials. Thank you very much for being here.
K: Hello Ruda, thanks for the invite.
R: Let’s start at the beginning. Did you always know you want to be a journalist? How did it happen?
K: I always had an enquiring mind and I loved reading newspapers. Funnily enough, a few years ago I was asked to contribute to a book – A Letter To Your 16 Year Old Self – which I thought was such an amazing exercise, and part of the exercise was to find something from when you were 16, and so I went through my mother’s house and I went through all her things, and I found newspaper clippings, that I had cut out from major news events while I was 16, so I saw there was the date. And I thought wow, I had actually forgotten about that, but clearly, it was there from a very young age.
R: And was it always radio, or did you first want to do print? Or how did you see it?
K: Funnily enough, I was a talk radio listener from a very early age. My mother converted me. We would have to listen to talk radio on the way to school, and first it was like please ma, it’s actually not cool. And at that point it was Radio 5 that all my friends were listening to. No, not us, we had to listen to talk radio. And eventually I got so used to it that I loved it. I ended up switching on myself. And I remember having a moment where Brett Hilton-Barber, he was the then-political editor for 702, and he was on the air talking about the political events just pre-94, and I just paused and I thought wow, I wish I could do something like that. That is really cool! And I was still in high school at that stage, and then I went to university and I did a general BA degree. At some point I wanted to study drama, but my Greek father said to me forget it. It’s not happening. And I said fine, I’ll just do a general BA degree. And I slowly found my way into radio and into media and journalism.
R: But you already had a picture in your mind? Of what the best of that genre sounded like? And that’s so fantastic. Then you started with community radio?
K: I did, and I think that was the best grounding. And I often say to younger reporters who come into the news room, and they say: “Ah, I’ve only been at community radio.” And I say never dismiss it. That’s the best grounding; it’s the best kind of training you can get. I started at community radio and in community radio everybody does everything. You answer phones, you’re on air, you’re just doing a whole lot. And it was really fantastic.
R: And there’s little pressure? It’s a good space to just learn?
K: And to fall and to make mistakes. And that’s okay. So you could and it’s not to say there were these millions of listeners or viewers, it was actually fine to find your feet. And then at one point I received a call from David O’ Sullivan. I was still doing community radio, and David O’ Sullivan was providing us with news from a company called Broadcast Resources. It was associated to Primedia. And he said to me: “Send me your CV – and there better not be one f-ing spelling mistake in it, otherwise I’ll throw it away!” Okay! I was too afraid to say no. And so I send him my CV.
R: And that was the door that opened to 702?
K: Yes, that was the beginning of that.
R: What was that change like? I mean, from that protected, contained space of community radio to 702?
K: Well you know, I’ve never actually told anybody this – you’re the first one, Ruda, but I considered not going. I considered not doing it. Because I’m wearing this badge that says #LoveChange, and I know that we… I forced myself, I taught myself to Love Change, but I’ve never really been a fan of change. I mean, my furniture in my house is exactly the way it has been – don’t ask me to move houses, don’t ask me to move offices… I’m very much a creature of habit. And so, there I was, in this community home of mine where we had lunch together, where we had dinner together – and I met my husband there! So it was very much about this community, and somebody was asking me to change drastically and go into a corporate environment, so at some point I considered not doing it. And it was actually my then-boyfriend, now husband, who gave me a kick up the backside, saying: “Don’t be ridiculous. Are you joking with me? Just, you have to do this!” And I took a deep breath and I said: “Here we go. Fine, I’ll do it.”
R: And then, before you were 30, you were editor in chief? Well, editor AND chief?
K: Well, the editor AND chief came slightly later! It was news editor to begin with. And you know, at that point 702 had been going through some turmoil. It was a difficult time for all of us as reporters, because we kind-of sat there in the background as we watched all kind of awkward politics take place.
R: What kind of politics?
K: The listenership had just completely gone down. You had this listenership at 702 that was doing so well, a radio station that helped define – in my mind – the end of apartheid. It got people talking in a really significant and meaningful way, and then at some point it lost its way and there was a shock jock on the morning radio – it was Gareth Cliff at the time – who I adore, I think he is amazing! But he was ahead of his time, or 702 was ahead of its time at that point. The listeners just didn’t…
R: And maybe there needs to be a kind of definition? So that when you as a listener tune into this station, you know that that’s what you’ll get?
K: Yes, I think so.
R: They lost their clarity?
K: They lost their clarity. So here was this young, brilliant man, who was telling jokes and doing pranks and doing things in a very fresh and new way – and we weren’t talking politics, and we weren’t talking crime, and we weren’t talking South Africa and transformation. And I think this got the audience a little bit. Because they weren’t sure what to expect, and we lost a lot of listeners at that point.
R: And when you took over, what did you focus on?
K: Well, when I took over – also an interesting story – because at some point I left the newsroom and Dan Moyane at the time said to me: “Would you like to do an evening talk show?” And I said I would love it. I mean really, what do I know, I am quite green, but let’s give it a try. So together with my co-host Benedict Mahu, we went to the talk. And then Dan called me back about 18 months later and he said: “We need you in the newsroom. We need you back. Could you consider coming back?” And I was so happy that he had asked me, because I love doing the talk show, but ultimately I wasn’t involved in that day-to-day news process…
R: You like the hard news?
K: I love it. I love it. I love the adrenaline rush – it can kill you eventually, but I love it! And I went back to news, Ruda, and then they said at some point: “Well, you’re 25…” 26 at the time, I was. I just turned 27. “We don’t have a news editor. Could you be it?” And I thought they had made a serious mistake.
R: Were you frightened?
K: It was hugely frightening, because I had senior colleagues now, who I was in charge of, and I needed to manage. And it was daunting.
R: How did they respond?
K: Most well. Some not so well. And I remember an encounter with a much more senior colleague… and experienced, someone who I really respected. He basically said: “Look, I have to leave. You’re younger than me. Half my years.” He was in his 50s. “And I don’t think I can report to a younger woman, so I think I am going to leave.” And you know, at that point I just thought I need to find my strength now, and say: “Well, I wish you the best of luck!” As opposed to fall apart, because that would have been the response for some, but for me it was well, I’m sorry that we can’t work together. Cheers, good luck.
R: Was it also about the fact that you were a woman?
K: It was, and he verbalised it like that. “You’re a younger woman and I just can’t do it.” And I got a sense that behind the scenes perhaps he had been wrangling for that position as well – I don’t know – I chose to stay out of it. But I think it did have something to do with that.
R: How were you brought up as a girl? What did your father expect you to become in this life?
K: You know, it’s so interesting, because my father… I come from a family of two daughters and one son, so it’s the three of us. And my father – both my parents, actually said you can do anything and be anything you want, which interested me because my family…
R: That’s such a gift. Especially to a girl.
K: But it’s also a contradiction if you like to my current family structure, what my family structure was. So my father was the breadwinner. The head of the household. My mother was a stay-at-home mom. And so, to hear them say that was really refreshing. And not to just expect us to fit into that mould. So it really was refreshing. I mean, that’s obviously what worked for my parents, and this was my mother’s role and my mother’s… it was her calling, actually. She loved, and still to this day, nothing more than nurturing her family.
R: But they made it clear that that is not a definition of a woman, it is her personal choice. As I say, it’s such a gift.
R: How did you experience… Did you then move on to management, rather than be out there on the beat?
K: That was a difficult transition as well, because there I was, out there, reporting on stories, out and about, or either anchoring news being out there in the field, and then suddenly I was office bound, needing to manage. And so I had a bit of a tug-of-war with myself – do I give up my on-air role just to be a manager, or do I do both? And having a crazy streak, I convinced myself I could do both. And I did do both for a long time. I would wake up at a really early hour of the morning – 3:30 in the morning I would be up, I would read on the John Robbie show, and I would finish reading at 9:00, and then I would say: “Now my job starts.” Now the real job starts. That was my hobby – anchoring on air until 9:00; now the real job starts. So the hours were very long.
R: Sjoe! You took something on yourself there, heh?
K: I did! Until after I had my son, actually – still I was doing it – up until I had my first little one, and then I thought actually this was not sustainable.
R: There are only so many hours in the day. And television, Katy? Did that door just open, or was it something you were looking at?
K: Ruda, I’ve never applied for a job in my life. They’ve always come to me somehow. So that same way that David O’ Sullivan said to me: “Send me your CV” and the expletive about the spelling, was pretty much how television happened last year. I had met with Carte Blanche director George Mazarakis to talk about a working relationship between Carte Blanche and Eye Witness News as a whole, and we explored the possibility of working around Oscar – I loved the idea of the pop-up station. I thought it was different, it was fresh, South Africa needed something like this and I immediately said: “Yes, the team must be involved.” And so we started getting involved in some rehearsals with the team as a whole and anchoring was never a part of the brief. He had said to me: “We would like you as a guest from time to time. If you wouldn’t mind being a guest on our editor-slot, just to talk about Oscar, coverage of the trial and that kind of thing.” And I said: “Pleasure, no problem, but we do need some rehearsals.” And he said: “Yes, you guys do need a whole lot of rehearsals. Come over.” And so we went for our first rehearsal and George said to me: “Could you please not leave after we’re done?” And I said sure. And then he came down and he said: “Look, actually we’d like you to host this editor slot, if you wouldn’t mind.” And I said: “What!?” And he said: “Yes, we would like you to host it, and now we need you to really start rehearsing with us.”
R: How did you experience the camera? And suddenly having every gesture, every expression out there?
K: I’m a very expressive person, and so often my face tells you exactly what I am thinking, and my hands, as you can see are pretty much all over the place! So it was more structured for me. And I would often have to remind myself on air, Ruda, mind your face! You know he’s talking back, in front of you, and the guests if there was a moment where they weren’t making much sense. Just mind your face, because radio, you’ve kind of got somebody on the phone and go like, really? Or you chat to the producer on the other side of the room, and you go whatever! Crap! What is she talking about? But on TV it’s very much, far more controlled and just mind what you’re doing with your face and with your hands!
R: And the sudden, very public exposure? Because radio is different. Television is a weird animal.
K: Yes, George said to me this will change your life. He said: “This will change your life. People will stop you in the Spar.” And so they did.
R: And did you believe him?
K: At first I said well I’ll take in my stride. It is what it is, but it really is much about: “Those aren’t stares that you get, and people aren’t sure.” And so often I got: “But don’t I know you from somewhere?” And it’s happened from aircrew on airlines and it’s like I don’t have a standard response for this! I’m like: “Maybe.” But it was very much about people now recognising.
R: But it sounds as if you really don’t love change, but you’ve stepped up to the plate, time and time again? Something was available, it was different…And you just said: “Okay well, deep breath, let’s try this.”
K: Yes, and have fun while doing it. So for the whole of last year I was pretty much working two jobs. I would have my daytime EWN work, and then I would go, as I would often say, play on TV at night. So I would have my daytime job and then play on TV.
R: Let’s talk about your family, because you have two sons under the age of 10? How do you manage that?
K: With a lot of help and an amazing support structure. And they’re really cool little boys, I must say. They’re really lovely, and they understand that mom works. It’s become a part of our lives, there’s nothing unusual about mom leaving before they go to school or coming a little bit later. During Oscar, they didn’t see me much admittedly, because we would finish really late at night and by then they would be fast asleep. And so, with a lot of support, my husband is very hands-on, I have an amazing, amazing housekeeper at home – Gugu runs our house. She is the captain of that ship! And an amazing mom who fetches boys from school in the afternoon, settles them, hands them over to Gugu and she will deal with them until I or either their dad gets home.
R: So there is, actually, an extended family?
K: Very much so.
R: It’s not a nuclear… with two parents and the children?
K: No, very much so. And we work together. They know – everybody knows we’re here to help each other and to just make this life of ours work, actually.
R: Have they changed you?
K: My boys? Definitely. Oh, definitely. They’ve made me much softer. So, doing a story about children pre-being a mother, was part of the course. It was one of those things, you would cover it as if it was another story. Now, children being affected in the news in some way is deeply, deeply devastating for me. We had that case of Taegrin Morris. Do you remember little Taegrin Morris? He was the four-year-old in Reiger Park who was dragged to his death last year. Ruda, that story touched me in such a deep place in my heart, and I kept on thinking why has this upset me so much, because there are so many stories we cover on a daily basis, and I mean the similarities are just there. A four-year-old – I had a four-year-old at the time – sitting in a car with mom and dad? Sitting in a car with mom and dad?
R: It’s very close to the bone.
K: Very, very close to home. So much so, for a long time, I couldn’t… for the first time, actually… I switched off when I was listening at some point. And I never, ever switched off an EWN bulletin. That particular day, to hear that mother to talk about the loss of her child like that, I couldn’t listen. So that certainly has changed me in that respect.
R: And do you try and protect them?
K: I do. So news is very much a part of our world at home. It’s very much a part of my world. I find myself – especially now that they’re older – understand, having more private conversations. The phone will ring, we might be having dinner, and if I see it’s the office and I know it’s something I will walk away. Because the nature of the call can be quite distressing for them. And in fact, my eight-year-old said something quite fascinating on this past Sunday. We were driving and the news bulletin was on. And there was silence in the car as there often is and we listened – nothing particularly gruesome. And then he said to me: “You know mom, sometimes I really wish you didn’t work in news.” And I said: “Why did you say that?” And he said: “So many children get hurt, mom. And I said: “Ja, I know, it’s really sad.” And you try to empathise with them and then… you know… you just try to shield them in some way as best you can, Ruda. As best you can. They’ll be exposed to it in some way.
R: But it’s hard when he realises it so clearly. And he expresses it so clearly.
K: He articulates it so clearly, so I know exactly where he is on it.
R: You wrote a book called “I’m Missing News”? Where did the title come from?
K: It actually came from him. It came from my eldest son. He was about two or three at the time and he kept on saying: “I’m missing news.” I didn’t quite understand what he was saying. And then there was a news bulletin which I put a bit louder, and he said: “Mommy, we’re listening to I’m Missing News!” And I realised that this child has been trying to say: Eye Witness News! But I just thought it was fabulous because when you’re at home you feel like you’re missing what’s happening in the newsroom environment, and when you’re in the newsroom you’re just feel: “I wonder what is happening? What I’m missing in that home environment.”
R: And what was your book about?
K: It was pretty much about those two environments. About 24/7 breaking news and adrenaline – I mean – hard-core stuff that we deal with. Because it is quite hard-core. It’s a world of politics and corruption, of death and crime and blood, and that difficult side. And then it’s juxtaposed by these soft cuddles and soccer practices and these very soft little boys that I have, and trying to find how to merge these two worlds of mine without falling apart in the process.
R: It is still only women who are asked: How do you find the balance. How do you feel about that?
K: It has to change. At some point! I take a deep sigh and it’s like deep – biggest. Ruda, it has to change. We can’t keep putting these expectations on women – women must be the ones who will fit into this perfect mould at home, but will still fit into a mould at the workplace. It has to shift somehow. And society needs to try and shift that. We can’t put these expectations of: “But you work, how do you balance it with your children?” Well, I’ve got a great husband, actually! And he really does his fair share of whatever needs to be done at home, and when he’s not there, then I take over. We just do it. We’re a team – it’s teamwork. But nobody has asked my husband: “How do you balance your business with your children?” Never, ever.
R: Ja, I think we share that. I also had a husband – have a husband – who, without him I couldn’t have done it and bring up a child.
K: Aren’t you grateful?
R: Absolutely. But it’s also great for the children, because they have a very close relationship to the father, because when they’re little, sometimes Daddy’s the only one there. So there’s a connection that I feel kids who are brought up mainly by the mother might miss.
K: Yes, I completely agree with you. And so they know they can rely on mommy or daddy, or anything actually, whether or not they left homework at school – which was the case yesterday – so daddy had to go back to school and wait for somebody to unlock the classroom so that we could get the homework… Whether it’s that, and then it’s daddy or mommy…
R: Or you need a cuddle – you can go to either.
K: It’s not either this one or that one, it’s very much interchangeable.
R: And tell me about your husband? You said you met at work? And when did you know he was the right one and why?
K: Not for a while. We met at this community radio station. He was never an on-air type. He was also finding his way, working in the sales department at the time. And he kept on saying we need to go out. “And I don’t actually want to go out with you, it’s really fine.” And then at some point he said: “I’ve got Bon Jovi tickets. You’re coming with me.” And I said: “Actually, I’ve got news for you. I’m going with my sister. We have our own tickets.” So there was this little bit of a cat and mouse happening for a while. And we met when I was very young. I was 21, he is the same age as me. And I would say we were dating for about five years before we decided to get married.
R: And what made you decide that this could actually work?
K: Ag, he is just divine. He’s very supportive. He’s not… He’s my fiercest critic. He’s my greatest fan – he’s kind-of everything I need in a partner. So we’re there to support each other and when I’m down, he will give me a kick up the butt and go: “Come on, you’ve got to try this. Move on! You know you can do this.” When this Oscar opportunity came along last year, I did have these moments of angst, self-doubt. I’ve done TV, I don’t know if I can do this, I know they’re saying I can do this, I know they’re saying I look okay on TV, but actually… I don’t know. And he was saying: “You look fine. You will be fine. You know you can do this.” I was appointed as secretary general of SANEF – the South African National Editors Forum last year. And again I was like: “I can’t do this, I don’t know.” And he said: “Are you joking? It’s like SANEF?! They’ve appointed you as SG. It’s a great honour. Just. Do. It. And when you can’t manage here, I’m here and where I can’t you will be here.” So it’s that kind-of real teamwork. We just gel.
R: That’s also something about change. When you have people around who support you, who say it’s not such a crazy idea – it just makes it so much easier.
K: And they can cushion any hard knocks you might get.
R: What was the best thing about your wedding?
K: The best thing about my wedding? Ag, everything! Absolutely everything. I also suffer from a Princess Syndrome. So while I have this hard news exterior, I have a bit of a princess complex in the meantime. So this was my ideal platform to let that kind-of play out in the real world. It was just wonderful. We had fun, it was fabulous. My Big Fat Greek Wedding, it was. Ja.
R: And how has being married changed you? Do you think it has?
K: You grow together.
R: Being part of a couple does change you.
K: I loved it. I can’t say it’s changed me towards the negative. We’ve grown together, we have had ups and we have had downs as with every relationship. It’s helped me grow and mature and evolve as a person.
R: And what makes it work from day to day? It’s not always easy? Being half of a couple is Not. Easy.
K: Just talk. Understand. I’m… like… passionate. When I fight, I fight. When I think you’re wrong, you’re wrong. I say it as it is. And he does the same. So we’re just honest with each other all the time. “I think that wasn’t great. What was that about?” We can just have those very open conversations. And ultimately we also know that the structure of ours is not just the two of us. We have these two children who look at us with their big black eyes… big, big, round eyes that you kind-of can get lost in, you can drown in. So they’re looking up to us as well. We want to be good role models for them. Will we get it wrong? Definitely. We’re human, ultimately. We will get it wrong, and I often say to friends – I will say to my girlfriends – “Girls, no matter what we do, our children will end up in therapy and blame us at some point in their lives about how we messed them up.” So we’re trying the best we can for now.
R: Start a fund, As you do for university, start a fund for therapy.[laughs] And tell me about your home? You say you’re very home bound and you don’t like moving et cetera. Where are you?
K: So our first home we were in for twelve years, and then we thought: “Okay, it’s time to move. The family is getting a bit bigger.” And I resisted that change. I was like: “No, I love this place, I’m attached to this place, I really can’t move from here.”
R: I chose this paint!
K: Exactly! Exactly that. And my fig tree. I loved that fig tree! I am attached to this fig tree, and what am I going to do about my fig tree and I love these figs? And he was like: “Well, we’ll get another fig tree. I don’t think that is the reason we don’t move house.” And at some point it’s actually a very funny story. My mother’s next door neighbour was selling. And Costa, my husband was saying: “Why don’t we go and have a look at this house? It looks really nice.” And I said: “It’s not happening. I’m not living next to my parents. It’s just… No!” And so he said: “You’re being ridiculous. You don’t even know what the inside of this house looks like. Let’s just go and look.” And I said no, I’m not doing it. And then one Sunday afternoon I was having lunch at my mother’s and the house next door was on show and I said: “Fine. Just fine. Let’s go.” And I said great, let me phone the owner, because he had been neighbours with my mom for a long time. And he said: “No! I just signed an offer to purchase. Sorry, you’re too late.” And he growled at me and said: “You know, just for once, just listen to me. I told you we should go and have a look at this.” And I was like very sheepishly: “Sorry, I know. It doesn’t matter. It’s to be.” I reasoned and I rationalised and…
R: The angels didn’t proclaim it ours.
K: Yes, until six weeks later I get a call on a Sunday morning from said-owner of this house and he says: “Actually, the deal has fallen through. Are you interested?” “Well, I don’t know. I’ll just have to speak to Costa and see!” So he said yes, we’re interested. “Tell him we’re going to have a look.” And we went and had a look, and it’s a lovely place. It’s an old house which we renovated and made our own.
R: What sold it to you? Apart from the fact that your mum – and a potential babysitter – lived next door? What sold the house to you?
K: It had a beautiful energy about it. It had such a lovely… there were lots of windows and open spaces – and it did remind me a little of my old place. So that was like: “Ah, I could be really comfortable here.” So it was a lovely energy, and then I got excited about the project. Then it was: “We could take that wall down and replace it with another wall there and we extend this room and do that there…” And suddenly I became excited. Having my parents next door, was an added benefit – for my children, especially.
R: I’m sure. And is there something you take, that you put down next to your bed first? And this is now, ‘I’ve claimed this space, this is mine’?
K: My books. My books are mine. And so when we moved into our first house, the first thing I did was have a special bookshelf made, which I realised a year or so later was far too small, so we needed more space. My books are my thing. So let me deal with my books, and you can do the DVDs and the CDs, because my husband has a passion for music. “And you can do all that and I will deal with the books. And that makes that our space.”
R: Katy, thank you so much. I have one more question. Do you have plans for the future? But you don’t have the five-year-plan-syndrome?
K: No, you can’t work… Not in news. When the year started I thought to myself: “Oh, I hope the news gods are kind to us this year and we don’t have the tumultuous year that we did last year. Last year was a really tough news year. Not just because of this Oscar story and me having to do it, but it was a really hard news year. Lots of things happening, one breaking story after the next. So I thought: “I hope the news gods smile on us and we have a somewhat quieter year.” They don’t like us, the news gods. They don’t like us at all! Because the year has really started, quite, from a news perspective, Ruda, really there is a lot to do. There is a lot on the go. We’ve had a lot happening, so no. I can’t find myself planning in those five year… No, it’s not me. I’ve planned up until my August holiday and I know that I’ve got x amount to do workwise, and x amount to do holiday wise until August, and then after that we will see. Whatever comes along.
R: Well, enjoy every day, and thank you for visiting!
K: And I’ll Love Change in the process, whatever comes along. Thanks Ruda.
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