She played everyone’s favourite love-to-hate villain in the hit SABC Soap, Muvhango, but there’s a lot more to Rami Chuene than sly conniving on the small screen.
An all-round entertainer since her schooldays, Rami has effortlessly made the transition from acting to singing, and the title of her debut album sums up her attitude to taking up a challenge: “From Fear to Love”. She sat down with Ruda to share her thoughts on being yourself, pretending to be someone else, and making the most of love, life, and motherhood.
Transcript:
RL: And our guest today – Rami Chuene. Rami, actress, producer, singer, fill in the gap? Just about everything?
RC: Ja, just about everything.
RL: Jack of all, Jill of all trades.
RC: Yes.
RL: When did you know that you want to be an entertainer? Did you sing to your family when you were four?
RC: Ja, like everyone does, you know. If you don’t sing to your family when you’re four, then you’re just not… then it’s not going to work. Ja, you have to sing to your family when you are like four or five, and you have to sing in church, and you must be the leader of the Sunday school and the youth group and all of that.
RL: Did you do that?
RC: I did that.
RL: Where did you grow up?
RC: I grew up in Polokwane. I was born in Seshego – it’s like a location just about 20 k’s out of the City of Polokwane. And we had fun, we had lots of fun.
RL: And when did that change happen, when you thought: ‘Well, this could actually make me some money, I could do this professionally.”
RC: I think I’ve always known that, but I made a conscious decision. I think I was about nine, when I was in standard 5… I don’t know what grade that is, and that was when I decided… because I was in my first year at boarding school, and they were asking us: “What do you want to do? What do you want to be?” And I thought: “I want to be an entertainer. I want to be a singer, I want to be an actress, I want to be a dancer, I want to be… okay, but I don’t dance that well, but what about…”
RL: What response did you get? Did people support that?
RC: Ja, they were like: “Wow, okay!” I had an awesome headmaster, shame, you know. He was very loving – he believed in all of us. He did! Even the astronauts, he was like: “Ja, sure!” Ja, he did. He believed in all of us, ja. That helped a lot. So I was about nine when I decided I want to be in the entertainment industry. I never wanted to do anything else – ever.
RL: And then how did you start?
RC: I started by being an actress at school. We did productions, had auditions and I was a part of a drama group as well with one of our teachers, and we would actually have drama lessons and we would act after school, write stories and little skits and all of that, and it worked. And then after matric… oh and then they brought us to Jo’burg… my official first visit to Jo’burg and I remember we came in the evening and all I saw was lights, I was: “God! Lights! Lots of them!”
RL: I want to go there!
RC: Yes, I was excited. And I remember we went to Roedean – we slept over there. I went to a private school, but our private school was in Skukundile and it wasn’t… I mean we had our dinner and our supper and our meals in tents, so next thing we get to Roedean – and they can actually choose! They had cornflakes, All Bran – they had – you could choose what you felt like eating! And they had yogurt. We didn’t have that! And they asked us: “What do you want to eat?” And I’m like: “I want to eat all of it!” And I asked: “Are we going to pay after?” And: “No, everything is free!” You should have seen us! All of us were so excited, we got into that food and we ate that breakfast like they were not going to serve us lunch. We ate everything! And you know, it was a different world, and they had a stage – a beautiful stage – and it had a curtain that could actually open and close.
RL: What was it like the first time you saw that curtain opening, and there was an audience?
RC: Because it was a group of us, they took our drama team, so it was about 20 of us or so. When the curtain opened we actually stood up and clapped. “It opened! Did you see it open!” We were so excited! We couldn’t believe it. And they had a… I don’t remember what production they were doing, and they actually had proper costumes… Donald Ducks and them, and they had lights – different lights. We never had that, because our stage was just like a little 20cm height kind of a platteland happening somewhere in the middle of nowhere, not far from the dining hall. So…
RL: So that cemented the idea, that it was actually possible? You wanted to do this?
RC: Ja, absolutely. And we also went to the Alhambra Theatre… Other people wouldn’t even know what I am talking about…
RL: Oh, I do. I do!
RC: I’m glad you do. And we went to see Nunsense, and the nuns were singing and they were silly and I said if the nuns can do that, then I can do that as well. And that was just it. Then I went to watch Mbongeni Ngema’s Township Fever about two years later and that’s when I knew it – I told my friends – I said… It was in 1989 when I went to the Market Theatre and … the same drama group, we all went and we watched Mbongeni Ngema’s musical, I think it was Township Fever. Afterwards I went to Mbongeni Ngema and asked for an autograph, and he signed it on a little bank… you know they used to give you those little booklets where you could say: “I withdrew R50 and I’ve got R4.50.” Ja, that little thing? And he gave me an autograph on that and I said to my friends: “Ten years from now, I’m going to come back to the Market, and next time when I come back, I am going to be on stage.”
RL: Rami, but that was a… in 1989… for a black woman to say that, was a thing! Where did you find the guts, whatever it takes?
RC: I think it’s a lot of confidence and going to a good school – I know I made a joke about our headmaster believing, but he did. Anything and everything that people wanted… he would get us magazines, he would get us documentaries … I remember we used to have bioscopes at school. They would get someone to drive to Jo’burg to get movies for us, and they would come and they will return them two weeks later, bring new ones … like he did everything he could in his power to just give us stuff that we never thought we’ll ever have when we are in Limpopo. It was just awesome, and he just made it look like everything was possible.
RL: He opened up your horizons.
RC: Ja, it was very, very easy. And I used to sing a lot in assembly, I used to sing in the choir and quite a few of the people I know are quite successful… right now, that I went to school with. And in different careers, and they just are doing so, so well. And I know that it is actually that foundation from my high school. So it was quite a very good school.
RL: But most people probably know you as Khomotjo Mojalefa in Muvhango…
RC: Ja.
RL: Drama queen, diva!
RC: Of course, of course. Always!
RL: Does that live in Rami?
RC: No, I wish! But I actually think… I believe that everyone has an alter ego, and if you’re given a chance to actually take that alter ego, you must take it to town, and for me, with Khomotjo Mojalefa, as soon as I read what they wanted, I knew exactly, okay, she’s going to speak like this woman. You know, there are a lot of people in my life that I know that are quite dramatic for different reasons, one or the other. And when they go to funerals they behave like this, when they go to weddings they behave like that, and I took all of that and I was like: “Yeah, you see here? I’m going to act like so and so. I’m not going to give them names, because they’ll be like: “Aaaargh, she’s talking about me!” But I literally built her, with a whole lot of people in mind and she just became this huge Miss Drama.
RL: The whole persona.
RC: That, like all of that, in seconds. She could cry, laugh, crack a joke, be upset, swear at someone in a space of a minute. And ja, that’s Khomotjo Mojalefa.
RL: What’s a day in the life of a soap star?
RC: You wake up very early. It’s not fun – that’s the first thing. You have to wake up first thing in the morning because I live out there in No-ways. You have to… I wake up at 4:30, then I pretend to be working out… you know, you go to the gym and you start walking onto the treadmill and you walk on the treadmill and as soon as you break a sweat it’s like: “Oooh, that’s it, I’m done for the day. And then you leave and you start driving to Auckland Park, get there… our call time is 6:30 for make-up, and if you want to eat, then you must come earlier, you must come at 6:00. So ja, then we, an hour later, 7:30, then we go on set and if you’ve got a whole lot of scenes, like 20 scenes, sometimes you’re on set the whole day.
RL: And somewhere in there, you have to learn all those lines?
RC: Yes, a lot of lines. A lot of lines. Crazy!
RL: And it’s not glamorous.
RC: No, it’s not. We just make it look glamorous. It’s hard work, it’s actually tedious, sometimes. But it’s just that because you’re liking the storyline, where it’s going, you’re liking what you’re doing, that’s what makes it more fun. But I think any other person, given that, if you’re going to throw any other person in that, just for a day, they wouldn’t go… they’ll be like: “No, can I please go home? Leave me to just do whatever that I’ve been doing.” But it looks nice, the end picture is just awesome. But we work long hours. It’s a 12 hour day.
RL: But it’s also a salary cheque, which entertainers want. Need. So what’s it like to have stepped out of that now, and you’re back into the freelance world?
RC: Well luckily for me, I’ve always been a freelancer. I’ve been a freelancer for 20 years now, if not more. I’m 27 though, just for the record.
RL: You were a child star?
RC: Ja. Let’s just say that. I’m 27. Well my daughters… I don’t know they’re 20 and 18, I don’t know what happened, but I’m 27 and I’m sticking to that. So I’ve always been a freelancer, so it’s always good, it’s lovely when you kind of get, for me, getting a year contract, two year contract, three year contract sometimes… it’s more of a breather. You just like taking a break. “Okay, fine. I don’t have to go to auditions, I don’t have to do 12 corporates, I don’t have to do this and this and that.” And there are days where you actually miss it, because you are thinking: “I get in 6:30, 6:30, Monday to Friday… come on. There has to be something else! I know there has to be something else!” But we’re so used to… I’m so used to freelancing that you don’t feel the pressure. Because already once you know the story is winding down, you start thinking ahead, so… Okay fine, that means I have to say to people: “By the way, I’m available from such a date, onwards until further notice.” So you must start making yourself know around your circles that you are available. So sometimes you don’t feel the pinch, but it’s that thing, you know, when you’re lying down and the SMS comes in and I got paid. But now this is: “Oh no! When will I get paid?” So you need to still step out and hussle again and again. But I love the thrill of it. It’s lovely. I love being a freelancer.
RL: Where did your first album start? What is it called? From Fear to Love? And does that say what it was?
RC: Yes, it does. I called it From Fear to Love… because I studied Jazz. I went to Tech Pretoria, I don’t know what you call it these days? I think it’s TUT.
RL: Ja, it’s Tut. It’s a bit of an unfortunate name.
RC: Ja, let’s just stick to Tech Pretoria. So I went there, I studied music and I’ve been singing. What people don’t know is that… I think some people know now – I’m actually a singer first, before I’m an actress. I started acting professionally by default. I always thought I want to sing first, then I’ll act in my spare time, but then it turned. I don’t know what happened. I ended up acting more than singing. But I also think it was the fear of the music industry, because sometimes the way that the music industry operates… it doesn’t benefit the artist, so you know, it’s nice to get signed up and you’ve got this multi-million recording deal. It’s a deal which is a lot of money, but at the end of the day the cut that you get determines your worth. That is why… “Oh can you believe it, he died a pauper.” “But he sold so much of these albums?” “No, no, no. Only 6% of that belongs to him. 94% belongs to everybody else. Execs, producers, marketing companies, distributors, managers, lawyers, whatever!” There’s just so much…
RL: So why do it then?
RC: That’s the thing! But then it depends how hungry are you. And how informed are you? So what I like now, is some of the musicians have come up with an organisation where they actually teach musicians, like they do the business side of music. What to do, and what not to do. It’s also, it always sounds nice: “Oh you know, I want to sign you up, you’re going to be a star.” And sometimes you get an advance, you get like R500 000 and you go buy a car, and then you’ve got nothing, because you’re either signed for 5 years or you have to pay back… you have to produce 3 albums, which must be good sellers. Then you still have to pay back that money and you thought you actually… it was just money for you, that you signed. It’s actually…
RL: The artists don’t understand?
RC: Yes, you’re actually getting paid in advance. So now you have to step out and start doing a whole lot of gigs just so that you can live, but half of the time you’ll never even see your album sales. So then, I think that that’s the fear that I’ve always had with the music industry. I mean, there was a time when someone was like: “Oh no, we’ll sign you.” And it was cool, I was excited, but when I found out that they actually had the music ready, they had everything – the image that they wanted to – they just wanted someone to step in and be…
RL: Fill the hole.
RC: They just wanted a person. And I was like: “No, that’s not what I want to sing.” And then I ran away. I ran away from music, but I was just writing and doing a whole lot of things, working, singing all over. I’ve been singing live quite a lot, and then in 2009 I registered my own recording label,,,
RL: Jis Rami, that’s brave!
RC: Ja I know.
RL: I mean, that’s taking it on.
RC: Ja I’m still scared. So I did my own recording label in 2009, and it took me another 5 years to go: “Okay, fine. Let me record the album.” So ja.
RL: And what’s it like? Seeing it out there?
RC: Well it’s weird! I’m like, some of the, then I listen to the music and I’m like: “Oh my god. That’s me! Singing. With a live band! In studio! Through my own recording label! Which I put the money on!” No-one now has a claim to my music, no-one can say: “Oh no, but I own 2% of your song.” No, you don’t. All of it is mine. All of it!
RL: And is it working?
RC: Well I hope it will work. It has to work! I think it’s serious, very good music. It’s very good music and ja, there are quite a few people pushing me saying: “You have to record that album.” So eventually I did. I actually set a deadline for myself, I said I would record an album before I’m 40, and ja, well, with a few months left I did eventually…
RL: Does one have to do that? Put some pressure on yourself?
RC: You have to. You have to. For me I find something that works is I have to put pressure on myself and say: “Okay, fine. If I don’t do it by this time, then that means I will never get to do it.” So I push and I push. So I said fine, come October, the album needs to be out. And I did anything and everything to push that.
RL: Rami, let’s talk about you as a mother. For all this time while you were developing your professional life, you had two little girls?
RC: Three.
RL: Three.
RC: Ja, and they’re not little.
RL: How does one go about that? Keep both those balls in the air?
RC: You don’t. You just… you do it like this… two hands, one foot at the back or something. I don’t know, but somehow it works. I also… I think it’s when you’ve got a good support structure. When you’ve got a good family, because I’ve got a big family, I’ve got five siblings and then both my parents who were seriously hands-on. And my poor father has been taking me to auditions all my life. Sometimes I will be in Polokwane and he will be driving to and from Jo’burg just for an audition, and half the time I wouldn’t get the job! And he would still come back the following week and say: “No, no, no! We must go, sweetie, we must go!” And he would drive me up and down and my mother would be looking after the kids and all of that, so I also think when you’ve got a good support structure in terms of family and friends and when sometimes people think family, they think nuclear family. It’s actually having relationships within your community, because we have relationships that if my daughter wants for instance go study in Cape Town, I can actually ask a friend of mine and say: “My daughter is going to study in Cape Town, can she come stay at your house?” And there’s no relation there, it’s not like she’s my cousin or my sister, but you develop relationships that are so solid, that everything else runs smoothly. So half of the time it was not like I was this superwoman that was managing – I had good people pushing me saying: “No it’s fine, no no. Just leave that, we’ve got this. Just go!”
RL: That’s fantastic, but that also means don’t be too proud, huh? Allow yourself to say I can’t do all of this, accept help graciously. Not all of us can do that.
RC: Ja, but I’m glad that now the girls are grown-up. “Please, go away.”
RL: You were also married to someone in the entertainment industry. Good point, bad points about that?
RC: Good points is that I learned a lot. Bad points is that it’s easy to get broke.
RL: Because neither had a… occupation?
RC: When both of you are auditioning at the same time and none of you is working, it’s a big problem. It is a problem. And I mean, ja, we did our best. We kept it together for quite some time and it’s not easy when you’re both in the entertainment industry, because it is so unstable. But we managed to wing it, but I think mostly what… sometimes it’s not the lack of work or the lack of jobs, it is also when you cannot manage yourself properly, when you don’t manage your finances, when you don’t plan ahead, when you don’t think: “Okay, three months from now, what happens? Six months from now, then what? Okay, my daughter is in matric. That means next year she has to go to tertiary. So then what?” Just being able to plan and all of that, and I think that is one of the things that I kind of learned along the way. But other than that it was just like there were a whole lot of other issues and it didn’t work out, but it was also… it was a struggle just trying to push the passion.
RL: How did being a wife and a mother influence you as an artist?
RC: I think you grow up a lot.
RL: They say that adults don’t create children. Children create adults.
RC: Ja, you know. I mean I’ve got a seven year old who talks too much. Yesterday the things that she was saying to me, I wanted to… you know when you look and you are thinking: “One day. You!” She is like that, and… but as a mother and as an adult in the house, you don’t just talk. It’s like you have to breathe in and go: “One, two, three.” Then say something and by the time you go one, two, three she is already thrown in all lines at you, and you’re like: “Give me a chance! Can I like…” Just the other day she was saying to me: “You’re so slow, you know that?” And I’m thinking: “I will kill you!” She’s like: “Mommy, you’re so slow.” And I was like: “No, no. I was still digesting what you were saying. I heard.” There are days where she says to me: “You’re not listening to me, are you?” And I’m like: “No, no. I am! I was still trying to get to your first point, because you’re telling me six things.” And she’ll tell you: “Today I did ballet and this and this, but you know karate? That Joshua kicked me in karate.” And I start thinking: “So you did ballet, but you got kicked? You got kicked in ballet?” “No, I didn’t get kicked in ballet, I got kicked in karate!” And I’m thinking: “You see now?” And she’s like: “No, you’re slow.” I think I’m a bit older than I thought. Ja, it’s not good.
RL: But I’m sure it also makes you a better actress, that you have the emotional experience of all of that?
RC: Yes, absolutely. You see, Khomotjo? Even my daughter is that way as well. Especially my seven-year-old. She says the most weirdest things and she is fast, she is witty and she thinks she was born in France. Then we just leave it at that, if you know what I mean. “Mommy, was I born in France?” And I was like: “What, I don’t even know where France is!” And: “Oh, I thought I was born in France.” And the other day we were driving back, just two days ago, driving on Bram Fischer, okay. Just outside the taxi rank, and there was a beautiful song playing and we were dancing, and then she was saying to me: “Hmmm, doesn’t this sound like when we were in New York?”
RL: At seven!
RC: Ja, I’m thinking: “Okay.”
RL: No problems with her horizons.
RC: No, no, no, no. I’m telling you she is going everywhere. Now this day, she wakes up: “You think we can go to the beach today? How far is Durban?” And I’m thinking: “No, we’re not going to Durban. You don’t just wake up and go to the beach. We plan six months ahead that we might be going to Durban! We don’t wake up and go.”
RL: Rami, so where’s home?
RC: Ah, I live in Fourways, which is Noways because of the traffic – there are no roads. I live in Fourways, I live in Craigavon with my kids… no with my one kid, my seven year old. Because my 18 year old is in Polokwane, she goes to school there and she’s doing her matric. A, A, A… Ntateng, anything less is not going to work! She’s in matric, and my other one is doing second year fashion photography and she’s working as well. She takes after me – she knows how to go to school and work at the same time, which is good. And now she’s moved out, she stays by herself and when she left I was like, people saying: “Oh, the nest! What’s this thing about the empty nest?” And I’m like: “Yes!!! She left! What nest? What are we talking about? Go, sweetie!” And there are days she’s like: “I’m coming home.” And I’m like: “Why, what happened?” And: “No, I just wanted to come and see you guys and spend time with you.” And she’s there one day and the second I’m like: “When are you going back? Like, go! Go, sweetie!”
RL: Where there very specific things, values, ground rules that you instilled in them consciously?
RC: Consciously not really. But they know that you have to work hard. Nothing comes for free. And you have to be honest, you have to be passionate and you have to do what you want to do. I never said: “I want you guys to be a doctor.” No, no. Pick what you like and do it passionately. And if you do anything that you love with a passion, then it will automatically reward you. And I think those are some of the things because I see with my daughter how she hustles – she’s crazy, she’s been working since she was like 16, so she works a lot and she moves from one job to the next, and not because she’s horrible, but because she’s actually headhunted. They’re like: “You know, we like her. She must come and work!” And she’s just job hopping and then she’s still at school as well.
RL: Well, getting experience?
RC: And getting a lot of experience and she’s exposed to a lot of things and ja, well, she’s kind of like in the entertainment industry as well, because what do photographers do? Take us pictures. Well that’s what she does, but other than that she does crazy things. The do all of them. And my 18 year old wants to study journalism, that’s what she’s doing next year. She writes her own…
RL: Where’s she going?
RC: She’s going to Rhodes. And she writes her own books and her own stories, fiction, non-fiction. And there are days where she has rants and raves on Facebook and start cutting people up because of some cause that she’s fighting for. And I’m like: “Please don’t tag me! Don’t tag me! Don’t let people know that I know you!” You know, because she’s just so outspoken and she’s like a mini-Winnie Mandela. She’s just so… that!
RL: And when you came to Johannesburg, what were you looking for in a home? Maybe I shouldn’t say when you came to Johannesburg. Your present home, what was it that stole you heart?
RC: Well, where I live right now, okay, there’s space. It’s not as big as I want it to be…
RL: Do you like space?
RC: I love space. I’m addicted to space. I’m actually very claustrophobic, so I like…
RL: Big open rooms and light?
RC: Ja, you know, those beautiful bedrooms which I don’t have. I still have to find one where I just want to move from my bed into the bath, but I want to walk 20 metres to the bath. But it must be one huge room, like I love space. I love beautiful views and… There are no views in Fourways, such a flat land.
RL: And what did you bring with you? Anything… a carpet, a picture, lots of photographs?
RC: Lots of pictures and photographs. My house actually has a lot of art in it, because my daughter, the 18 year old who is going to Rhodes, also is a fine artist. It comes out as is, and you can see okay fine, she’s a beautiful fine artist. So I’ve got a lot of her paintings in my house, and the little one as well. I’ve got a lot of me that she truly thinks are fabulous. And looking at the nose, the nose is this big and I am thinking: “Ja, wow. That’s me. I look pretty! I love it, mummy. I love it!” But ja, a lot of photos – I’ve got a lot of that. And a lot of wine. Please don’t come to my house for wine! But I’ve got lots of it.
RL: Rami, so what’s next?
RC: What’s next besides promoting my album and going crazy all over? I don’t know. I write. I write a lot. I don’t think I want to be…
RL: Write what? Poetry? Lyrics? Or what?
RC: Anything. Ja, okay I had to write lyrics for the album. Thank god two songs, a beautiful friend of mine helped me write. He wrote one song and I just went to his blog and said: “I like this, let me take that!” And I took that and turned it into a song and then the other one I was like: “I am stuck.” Okay, I wrote something, he read it and he brought it back more, better, I suppose. And I loved it and he was like: “I’m sure you can do something with it.” And that is why I said: “Listen, that song is not working! Can I send it back to you to look at it?” Ag ja. But ja, it was like a bit of a that. But other than… I do write, I write whatever. There are days where I write small quotes, then I do poetry, then I write stories. I like writing children’s stories, which I have never let anybody read. Because I used to teach Sunday school, so you know, me and kids are like tight. I love.
RL: Well, all the very, very best. I hope I see your stories for little children soon!
RC: I hope so too! Well thank you so much. Ja, you must just tell everyone to buy my album.
RL: Ja! What’s it called?
RC: From Fear to Love.
RL: Go out and buy it!
RC: I didn’t say it, she said it. So please go out and buy it. Thank you. iTunes, everywhere! All the leading stores – it will be there.
RL: Thanks Rami. Go well!
RC: Thank you so much, Ruda.
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