On the field he’s a fighter, a one-man whirlwind who combines tireless, dynamic energy with creative flair and spur-of-the-moment intuition. His national call-ups and global awards testify to his reputation as a hard man to beat in the world’s most gruelling game.
But Schalk Burger Jr, top-scoring Springbok flanker, SA and IRB Player of the Year, Laureus honoree and standout member of the 2007 World-Cup winning squad, has proved himself just as tough and resilient when life throws him a curveball of a different kind.
He’s battled his way through a string of debilitating sporting injuries, but his biggest battle was his bout with bacterial meningitis, which left him fighting for his life in a hospital bed. Against the odds, he not only pulled through, but went on to make one of the most heroic comebacks in rugby history. What is his secret? What is his winning formula? What has he learned about life from the game, and about the game from life?
What is the Schalk Burger Jr philosophy for getting out there, playing the bounce, and playing to win? “The more risks you take, the better you play,” he tells David O’Sullivan, in this fascinating, in-depth podcast, which delves into the making and shaping of a rugby legend who has learned to love change, on and off the field of play.
Transcription:
D: Schalk, well let’s start with your first memories of rugby, and I would imagine it would be watching your father in action, would that be right?
S: Yeah, I mean, I suppose you can’t really underestimate what influence it had on me as a youngster. So basically grew up at Newlands watching my old man play, still. And back then Newlands you’d sit in front of the grand stand and there were scholar seats there and we would sit there as three or four-year-olds, and after a game we used to play in your pair of jeans, which only used to last a couple of weeks because after the game was finished, you still were allowed to play your own game at Newlands. So that’s where the love for rugby started and the fact that my dad was doing some commentating at the time, or a little bit later in the early nineties, and we used to go to matches and he was obviously quite recognisable back in the old days. He used to play for Western Province for a few seasons, so then I think you sort of get imprinted that it will be quite nice to be a rugby player … Obviously a little bit later, everyone knows what the ’95 World Cup did to everyone, but ja, I think it started at a very, very young age.
D: You went to Paarl Gim and then you went to Stellenbosch University. Big rugby cultures there, and with your name Schalk Burger and with your father so prominent, was there a lot of pressure on you to perform, to be good and to excel at rugby at both Paarl Gim and at Maties?
S: I suppose if you think back now, there probably was quite a bit of pressure, but I think that I had the right personality for it. You inherit your old man’s name and you’re going to schools where a rugby heritage is massive. They produce Springboks year in, year out, there are five, six, Craven Week players and in every Craven Week team, I think in my year when I arrived there, I came from a small school in Wellington and go to Paarl Gim and all of a sudden there are 60 guys who played Craven Week under-13 the year before. So I think a lot of times there was a lot of pressure, because you know … The old man…. The expectation is the thing that can catch you out. But for me, back then, I was just relaxed. I played a bit of cricket. I played a bit of rugby and the big thing for me was just to enjoy it, enjoy every moment. And I think I always found that aspect of rugby the most enjoyable – afterwards in the training room, or before or the whole week you and a mate, you’re roommates, chat about a certain move you want to make. And it comes up once a week. But you keep on talking about that forever. So I think back now, there was massive expectation on me because obviously I was quite talented from a young age. It was quite obvious that I was going to do some sort of sport, but luckily for me, I think, when you’re so young and you’re just doing a week to week thing … I think although the expectation once you get on the field pretty much just gets blown out of the water.
D: Well, you got into top flight rugby quite quickly, and I remember the tumultuous time of the 2003 World Cup. In fact, you played for South Africa before you played for the Stormers. You had actually played for Western Province at the time. Do you find, when you look back at it now, that it was quite a rushed start to that professional career? Your talent was spotted early and you were thrust into the limelight very swiftly. Would that be fair to say?
S: Ja, very fair to say. So I mean it happened so, so quick. I was basically going from playing cricket for Boland Academy to playing for the Springboks within 16 months. I always joke with my mates that I was basically playing for a new team every week – I was climbing the ranks that quickly. So I think when you’re young, there’s two sides. You can either say okay, it’s too much, or the pressure can get to you and you can overthink it. Whereas my approach was to just go out and have a blast. What’s the worst that can happen? So look, it was a crazy time, because I went for one year playing … basically not having a contract, to Western Province, playing under-19s, under-21s and Vodacom Cup, SA under-21, Currie Cup, World Cup without even having played a Super Rugby game, so you know, it was a crazy year. If I think back now, I don’t think I would have had it any other time. You know, 2003 obviously was a tough, tough situation. The first of a few World Cups for me. But it was probably for me the World Cup where I learned the most about how not to do things and we did a lot of things wrong back then and for me as a youngster I found it quite tough, because obviously your whole career you’re looking forward to the Springboks and having an amazing experience and unfortunately for me, my first experience of the Springboks wasn’t that great a one. There was other teams that I played for in that specific year which had a lot nicer times, if I can put it that way.
D: Now, you’ve played the under-21 Rugby World Cup, and you’ve gone through those stepping-stones. How did you cope with the intensity changing each time, from playing junior rugby, under-21 rugby, Currie Cup test match … All very different levels of rugby. Different pressures on you. Much more physical … How were you as a young man able to cope, not only physically, but also mentally?
S: Ja, I think the biggest thing was first of all you don’t need to put any added pressure on you. You know it subconsciously, when you play your first test match, there’s media interviews, there’s pressure. Your family travels halfway around the world to come watch you play and so I don’t think you have to put any extra pressure on you. I think you have just got to try and stay as calm as possible and you’ve got to try and stick to what you know at the time. And the first time you do play your first test match, or you go up a step where now you play your first Currie Cup game, you can hardly remember anything of it. You’ve actually have got to go back in the video and say yes, this is what happened. When it happens, there’s so much emotion flowing and it happens so quickly, and the game is played at a tempo that you’re not accustomed to. Because you come from – for me, I jumped like four teams within a space of three months and I suppose before you get to play test match rugby, and I suppose I’m now at an age where you’ve pretty much seen it all and you’ve got an ability to think in the game, in certain times you’ve got the ability to switch off between certain facets of play. Where back then, you basically had a full on go. The first game, you do a lot of good stuff, but it’s all a sort of a blur. You’re lucky you’re young, you’ve got leaders around you who show you the way and tell you what to do. But the only thing that really helped was time in the seat. And at that stage, when I was younger, I always felt a lot of my friends who were contemporaries, I probably was at the same level as them. Maybe a couple of percent better, but then very quickly I accumulated a lot of experience and all of a sudden I was young and I probably had 40, 50 test matches and those guys were still playing provincial rugby for Western Province or Stormers. So all of a sudden, that rugby just preps you for greater and bigger things. There’s nothing like … I suppose it’s like the first time you face a really quick fast bowler when you’re playing cricket. You hardly see the ball. The second time you face him you can actually play a few shots, and then the third time you feel I’ve got time on the ball, so international rugby was the same for me.
D: You’re not the first of the Springboks or any international player to tell me that it all passes in a blur. But I’m curious to know – you played Georgia. It was a World Cup match – you played at the Sydney Football Stadium, and you scored a try. Have you a memory of that?
S: I remember that quite well, because I was on the field for a bit as well, so I was standing there and Neil de Kock who was with me at the Stormers at the time, said: “Listen here, partner, this is yours.” So thankfully we’ve got a good scrum underway and then we had a little pick up and go, I think I probably run all of five metres. And that was just a dream came true. You never think you’re going to score a try on debut. It was against Georgia, so it wasn’t really the strongest opposition. But it was quite a tough game, if my memory serves me correctly. It wasn’t a high score – we scored probably about 30 odd points and there was quite a long period of that game so … I think the thing I remember the most is I was supposed to come on just after half time. I was replacing Hendro Scholtz, and then just after Hendro Scholtz got a yellow card and then for 10 minutes I had to jump up and down waiting for the yellow card to pass. So that was probably the only thing that stood out in the beginning and obviously I remember scoring the try.
D: Yes, 46-19, was the final score of that game. A disappointing World Cup and I suppose overshadowed by Camp Staaldraad, which I now find players are talking about a lot more easily. What did you think of Camp Staaldraad as a youngster? The first time with the Springboks? It must have been quite mad for you?
S: Yes, I think it was a rude awakening. You … I suppose when you’re young, you don’t have a lot of mates in the setup. So I hardly played any … I played five Currie Cup games and then I was into the Springboks squad where we started training and then you start … Even the guys from Cape Town, I didn’t spend so much time with, but was there. Luckily I had Derick Hougaard and we played under-21s together. Jean de Villiers was there briefly, and then he got injured and I think the thing that is … it’s not ideal for you to get to know the team, because it starts like a military base training camp. No-one had names. We all had numbers and you couldn’t really interact with Corné or Joost or the guys who were the leaders at the time. So you were just pretty much just looking after yourself and trying not to get injured before the World Cup and obviously the whole thing was quite stressful on the team environment and I think it actually caused the team to be split in two. Because we had the coastal guys – the Durban, Cape Town guys, not approving of Staaldraad and then we had a lot of guys from upcountry actually backing Joost. So it was probably the last time I was involved in a Springbok team where there was a sort of a North-South or an inland a coastal split. So you, as a youngster you’re floating in between. You’ve got Jacques and Derrick and you’ve got no input in what happens, obviously and you sort of go yes and do it. I think if the same thing has to happen now, I think there will be a team revolt and the guys will just walk away and say this is not for us.
D: It’s interesting you mentioned Jacques and Derick, because Derick’s at the Bulls, Jacques’s at the Lions. But I suppose it was age that bonded the three of you together. Because you were the three youngsters in that side.
S: Ja, I think we felt a bit lost, to be honest. I think we found comfort between ourselves because the rest of the team was a little bit older and more experienced and we didn’t really have that much to say to each other, so when I got together every now and then … whatever your number was … I think Jacques’s number was 48 and me and 48 would have a couple of good chuckles. Derick was battling, because me and Jacques obviously were a bit stronger than Derick so we had to look after Derick a little bit, during Camp Staaldraad. If you think back now, it’s crazy memories. But it’s also one that you often find yourself telling to other youngsters and having a good chuckle about it. But at the time it didn’t make any sense to me.
David: You were now established and the following year you started playing Super Rugby for the Stormers. Had you already decided that rugby was a career for you? I would imagine you would have looked at your father who was in the amateur era and then became a successful businessman, that there was an understanding that rugby might not necessarily be the bread and butter, the career. But it subsequently did become that for you. At what stage did you say to yourself: “I can make a living out of this, this is the career for me.”
S: So my first year out of school, that year wasn’t really an option. I went to varsity and at that stage I had a Boland Academy Cricket contract. So I was playing a bit of cricket, trying to get the studies going. Obviously I was always very social – either actively in a pub or on the sports field, so studies were lagging way behind. And then I started playing rugby just because of the fun of it. And then I started going very quickly in my first year, and then had over the December, we were at our family holiday home in Kleinmond and we were relaxing and then the next moment I got a phone call from Gert Smal and Rob Wagner at Western Province saying they want me to turn pro. So it basically comes from nowhere and now there was a chance for me to turn pro. And that’s pretty much where I made the mind shift. My dad wasn’t too keen on it at the time for me, giving up studies and me going on to become a pro rugby player. Because I don’t think in their era it was really an option. So I then went into my second year, basically … Until my mates heard this is what I want to do, I’m going to start to become a pro rugby player, and as it turns out now, it turned out well because that same year I became a Springbok … My second year out of school. So I think that’s where I made the mind shift. I think my first year at Stellenbosch I was playing cricket, which was going really well … Playing a bit of rugby, studying a bit, obviously socialising … First year out of school is a good time in all of our lives. You’ve got that freedom that you never really had, you can get into your car and drive to play a round of golf and stuff. So December after my first year, that’s where I made the decision and then obviously reality came after World Cup. After World Cup, was the first time where I actually had enough money to call myself a professional rugby player and do what I want.
D: Do you ever take a look at the Proteas cricket team and wonder to yourself: “What if I had chosen that route?” Do you think you were good enough to be an international cricketer? A professional cricketer?
S: Well, you never know. All my contemporaries, they made it. Or a lot of them made it. But you never know, in sport you need a bit of luck on your side. You need a gap. When I started playing rugby at Stormers there were so many good loose forwards. You always think this guy ahead of you could have made it ahead of me. But for some reason you got a bit of luck and a bit of time being on my side and a few injuries and then all of a sudden, when you get an opportunity and you use it, then you all of a sudden become the incumbent loose forward. So as I mentioned earlier, I got a gap early on in my career and there were a lot of … equally good and before we knew it, I accumulated so much experience at a higher level that all of a sudden I was better than the next oke and obviously playing for the Boks at a young age, begin incumbent for many, many years, it gives you a certain amount of confidence and experience that you are better than the next bloke. And I don’t think … Sometimes I feel guys take a bit longer to come through. There is that transition phase where there’s a bit of doubt – are they good enough? Why are they coming through a bit later? Where with me there was no doubt. I just got in there and then I was regarded as the world’s best.
D: You then established yourself in the Springboks side, in the Stormers side, playing Currie Cup as well for Western Province. I suppose the next big Change Moment for you came in 2006, you were playing against Scotland – 17th of June – you suffered a serious neck injury. You had to have that fusion surgery. Was there ever a moment there that you thought it was all over now? That you have to pursue something else?
S: Well you’re very young, so you get the injury and you’re not really sure what it’s about … At that stage it was my first serious injury. Before that, from 2002, 3, 4 and halfway through 6, I played without having any breaks, really. And then you have a massive injury and you and you hear the physician say that if this operation goes wrong, this is pretty much it. So the reality pretty much sets in quite quickly. And then afterwards you come out the operation and they say the operation was a success and yep, here comes your rehabilitation process. So then I was out for six months and I think the scariest part was just playing your first game after that, because it’s your neck. And back then, nowadays the technology with operations moved forward a bit and it seems like a lot of rugby players are having the same operation. Back then it was not as common, and especially not if you play rugby and it was young in my career, you know. So everyone was sort of scared that you’re going to have the neck operation at such a young age, 23 years old. How are you going to last? How are you going to make your career last or extend your career. So the first tackle back, I remember I was playing the Bulls, warm-up game up in Pretoria and I had to tackle Danie Rossouw, which was obviously not the smallest or easiest guy to take down and made the tackle and bounced up the other side, nothing wrong. And I suppose that’s the wonderful thing about being young – your memory just sort of resets and since then – touch wood – the neck’s been pretty good.
D: I suppose you would have been enormously motivated, because that was also a World Cup year – 2007. Was that always on your mind that you needed to get back and you needed to show Jake White what you were capable of?
S: Ja, I think so. Obviously, 2006 wasn’t a good year for the Springboks, so I played the first couple and then after that we had a big battle in the then-Tri Nations. So I came back in 2007, confident that I’d get it going. And I think in the beginning of the season I took a few weeks just to get into it and 2007 for me was one of the years where I played some of my best rugby. So we didn’t play all the Tri Nations games before the World Cup – I played the two home tests, the one in Cape Town against Australia, which we won with the Frans Steyn drop goal from the touch line, and we lost in Durban only just against the All Blacks. But I was feeling confident. And I think sometimes, of my best years, was when I did have a bit of an off season. You know, when I didn’t continue playing rugby. So for me it was a bit of a blessing in disguise, the injury that I came afresh in 2007. And I think a lot of times when I break away from rugby, I actually get time to push the reset button. Because if you play a lot of rugby you get into a habit of doing certain things, and all of a sudden 2006 I was looking at the rugby and I think I can add something to my came. Obviously I had half a neck, but I think it’s the first time, in 2007 where I started evolving my game. So from 2002 when I made my debut, to 2006 I was an out and out fetcher, hitting rocks, tackling and basically just going just berserk on the field, where in 2007 there was a mind shift that I’ve got to try and get the linking game, the passing game – skills I do have, but I was never really showcasing that. So basically showed them off and I was young at the time and I moved into a leadership role at the Springboks at age 24, which was for me also quite nice.
D: It must have been an emotional roller coaster in 2007, at that Rugby World Cup, because we had that drama of you getting a four-match suspension, cited for that high tackle against Samoa, subsequently reduced to a two-game suspension on appeal, and then going on to win the World Cup. Take me through some of your memories of that time, coping with the idea that you might have to sit the bulk of the tournament out?
S: Ja, that was tough. I think it was for four weeks. I don’t think I would have played much in the rest of the World Cup because I think Jake could have settled on the next best starting lineup … And I might have had to play a role off the bench. So when the four-week suspension came out, it was obviously tough. And then we appealed and got it down to two weeks and when we got it down to two weeks it was okay, because I was never going to play the Tonga game, but I missed out on the England game, and the England game was the one where we beat them 36-0. Back then, I think when I was younger, I still had that volatility in my game so if you think back now, you tackle a guy in the air, half going for the ball, half swinging an arm. I had that volatility when I was younger. There was an inherent aggression and I think I’ve still got it in my game, it probably just better channeled now. But ja, it was tough, obviously missed those two weeks and then, luckily back then Jake had a lot of faith in me, so just clogged me back into a starting line-up and I played 8th man, actually. The first or the second test I played 8th man against America. I think I got a man-of-the-match performance there and then we moved in to the playoffs.
D: 15-6 Victory over England in that World Cup final. I would imagine that has to be your biggest game, your biggest highlight. Is that right?
S: Ja, I always tell people I’ve never really been nervous for a match, but that’s the one game that gets to you because it’s such a long build up the whole week before. And we were playing England, we’d beaten them comfortably. They came in June and I think we gave them 50 points twice, I think once in Bloem and once in Pretoria. We’d obviously beat them very comfortably in the pool stages, never thinking we would play them again and then all of a sudden you’re in the final and you’re the favorite to walk it by far. And we knew that England’s got a big competitive … So you’re nervous. So I think once we got halfway to the second half we realised that we’ve got this one in the bag and we’re not going to slip this one up and we’ve got it. And then it was basically just managing where you play on the path at the specific time, you had a feeling that they were not good enough to score a try against us. So, it was a nerve wrecking game and your immediate emotion when the end whistle goes just was relief, because you’re in that pressure cooker situation and I think the All Blacks proved exactly the same in 2011 when they beat the French 8-7, in that final could have gone either way. And I think ours was a little bit more comfortable, but still it’s such a difficult week. All the expectation. Ja, it was tough.
D: I remember Japie Mulder telling me that winning the World Cup wasn’t as good as the birth of his children. How do you stack them up?
S: Ja, I think it’s completely different. The births of your kids are special, it’s very stressful. It’s an emotional day. They come out and immediately you count if they’ve got 10 fingers and 10 toes and the oke makes a few noises and is it all good, and it’s a wonderful occasion for you and your missus. I think the World Cup is different – it’s your career. You dream about the World Cup – in 1995, we all watched, and that had a big political impact on South Africa, and I think 2007 was just a group of young guys getting together and at every stage of our career we were involved in a team, which was the best in the world at under-20 level, and now the opportunity to be the best in the world at senior level and to do that with a nice group of guys and guys who had serious longevity in South African rugby, I think was phenomenal. We had a good build up to the World Cup and then we went up to the World Cup and did our bit. So it was different. It’s very satisfying and you’re putting in effort, but having a kid is different. There’s an emotional connection between your wife and your newborn that’s tough to replicate. That instant love, where I think with rugby you learn to love it and you learn to play it well and you put in a lot of hours and eventually win a World Cup, which is phenomenal.
D: You got married in 2011, your first child born in 2012. Still a very active rugby player, but we’ve also got this issue of the bacterial meningitis to come – at what stage do you feel it’s time for a family? You’re so tied-up with your rugby. Was there, did you always feel there is a place for a family? There is time for a family?
S: Ja, absolutely. So, I was dating my then-girlfriend, now wife, for a long, long time. And I always wanted to get married when I was 30, but come 28 she was putting on a bit of pressure so we decided to get engaged in early 2011, and then after the World Cup we decided to get married. We got married on the farm, and obviously one heck of a party, and then went on honeymoon and then hooked up our first one. So we got our first one a couple of months later, so I think it was the next step. You date each other for a long time, you think okay, let’s get the next chapter of your life started. And to be honest, you know, it’s just the next thing. And I love being a father – a father of two now and still playing rugby and still playing nice, good rugby. I think it gives you perspective, kids, because you have for such a long time rugby dominates life and you sort of, you can easily become selfish, because everything is about you and your performance on the weekend. And then you get kids and then you still want to play rugby at the highest level and as good as you can, but then you wake up on a Sunday – even if you’ve lost, life goes on. The sun comes up. You’ve got two kids that wake you up at 6:30 and want to throw rugby balls or tackle dada, and it’s a nice thing. And I think the last few years, it’s been very nice for me. It’s been satisfying. A different age, a different phase of your life where you can still play rugby as good as you did when you were 21 where rugby was the only thing.
D: You got married, you had your kid and then suddenly you had an operation to drain a cyst and you stay in hospital because you actually contract bacterial meningitis. Few people have to face those kinds of challenges and your recovery is well-known. It resulted in a reward – a Laureus World Sports Award. What was that like for you? How aware were you of the threat to your own life as you lay in hospital, trying to fight this bacterial meningitis?
S: Ja, I mean, look, it’s a scary time. Because that’s where the world turns upside down and I suppose the toughest spot after the operation. I had the operation, and didn’t feel that well. And then rushed back to the hospital and then it became quite nasty. So, from my perspective, I knew something was wrong, but my condition deteriorated very quickly. So I basically went from sitting up, chatting, to lying there, eyes closed, just fighting for every minute. And I got the feeling that if I was going to give up or if I was going to slip away into a coma or whatever the next step was, I was not going to make a comeback. So it was a massive fight for me and the problem was that it just carried on and on and it didn’t get resolved in one day or two days or three days. For five days I was in isolation in a dark room basically just fighting for every minute not to go into a coma or not to pass away and I think it was at day three, my missus phoned all my best mates and family and called them and said listen, this is not looking good. He’s either not going to make it or he’s going to make it with some sort of defect. So, luckily for me, I got through that. But that’s the scariest part of my life, because subconsciously all of us have got a plan moving forward. Just to have the cyst removed in my back, which was scary. Now I’ve contracted an infection – bacterial meningitis. You go from being a dad and a family man and set up certain goals in your life, buying a new house and moving on, playing rugby for the Stormers, to where all of a sudden you’re fighting to be a normal guy, a normal quality of life. And that obviously shook our whole family up. I only had the one boy at the time, but that … You play rugby and you take big knocks and you take bigger knocks and the more risk you take, the better you play and you almost get to a stage where you feel kind-of invincible. You almost reach superhero status and then you get an injury like this and you just get a reality check like this and you realise you are human, you are normal … Life does throw a few curveballs. So for me, I don’t know how I got through that whole ordeal in one piece, but it was a long process after. I obviously had the meningitis, then they still had to remove the cyst and at that stage I was obviously not just very weak, but I’ve spent four months in hospital and then started making … Then it was road to recovery stuff. And that was tough, to sweet talk my wife for about two months just to get her blessing to start playing rugby again, and as they say the rest is history.
D: Was there a time, though, as you were going through that recovery period, realising you’d been at death’s door, that you thought now is the time for a significant change? That I have to throw in the rugby career and look for something else to do. Did you consider ever saying goodbye to rugby as a result of this illness?
S: Ja, I think saying goodbye to rugby would have been the easy option. I think my decision to come back and try and play rugby again was a tough question and a tough one to follow, the tough route. I think giving up would have been the easy one. I would have moved on with life, I would have had a decent quality of life. But then I made the decision to play rugby. And I think the thing that made me make the decision is you come back because it was taken away from you. And I wanted to leave rugby on my terms, and certain things I still wanted to achieve. And when I started training I went back to Western Province because that’s what you’re used to. You go to a team environment – I never really thought that I was going to start training to play rugby again. I started training because I wanted to get fit, I wanted to get healthy again. Because that’s what I’ve done my whole life. So I started training after a while – you start progressing in training and all of a sudden you start playing a bit of touch with the boys and you start running around with your team mates. And you realise you’ve still got a lot to offer and you’ve still got a lot to give and the body’s feeling alright. So that’s how I got back into rugby. But then, that rehabilitation process is tough. And I think for me one of the biggest issues was when I came back, I had to be patient and one week, you play a game and obviously you feel okay, and the next week you don’t feel alright. And obviously I lost a big base of strength, because I lost 20 kilograms in hospital. So where in the past I took for granted that I could tackle a guy and get up and tackle another guy and get in a ruck, now, all of a sudden, I was expanding so much energy just trying to be effective in a tackle or a breakdown. And there wasn’t much left to run around with. You know, the danger is the media is pretty ruthless. It’s great that you’re back, but comparing you to what you are in 2013 when I made my comeback to what I was in 2011, when I won my second SA Rugby Player of the Year. So it was such a tough phase, but then once I started getting back into it and I think there was a big turning point when I came back playing Currie Cup, I was on the bench and we lost the final against the Sharks and then I got invited to play for the Barbarians, so it would be at an international stage at Twickenham. Barbarians versus Fiji and like a month to prepare for it, and did some hard training and got there, starting to play the 80 minutes. And I think for me, just confidence-wise, that’s where I got the belief back, that okay, I’m back. I can play against the best in the world. And I remember at the time I’d sit down with the Western Province MD, I was probably weighing like 94 kgs or whatever at the time and I told him this is my plan and I want to go play Currie Cup, play Stormers, play Springboks … He was looking at me, thinking: “This oke has obviously not looked in the mirror that often.” But somehow he backed me and all of those things I told him came to fruition.
D: And as you say, the rest is history. You went on to play in yet another World Cup. How meaningful was that Laureus Award, that recognition of what you’ve managed to achieve. How important, significant has that been for you?
S: Ja, I think it’s nice. I think of all these awards, it wasn’t only me. I was the one putting in the hard work, especially for the Laureus Award, but it’s your whole support system. It’s your mom and dad, it’s your in-laws, it’s your friends around you that, you know, keep on backing you. It’s your wife that … She went through this whole story with me. And they all just support you. I think sometimes without you realising what a big role they play in your life. And I think when I finally got the award, you know, it’s nice to get noticed for the amount of work you put in. And so, that whole process was a long one and it took me a long time to get back, playing for the Springboks and in 2014, I only had to starts with the Boks but I got back there. And I think this award, when you look at it every now and then you think that stands for a lot of hard work and determination and it’s something you can’t put your finger on. I think you’ve got to make that mental shift that it doesn’t matter what happens to you, you’ve got to be positive about it. You’ve got to get rid of all those fears and the challenge of playing rugby is a massive one in itself. The challenge after what you’ve went through puts life in perspective. And for me, I think I’m quite glad that it happened, not that I should fall ill to experience it, but I think my whole perspective has changed. Rugby is such a small part of my life, but such an important part. And I don’t think I would have had that perspective without going through my ordeal. So the Laureus Awards is a special one. It think in my category it’s always quite difficult to celebrate because there’s a lot of other people who could have won it as well that went through the exact same story as I did, but it’s definitely one of the more memorable ones. And then also just, with rugby being such a team sport, this one was just to me and my stubbornness and commitment.
D: Well you’ve been through so much change, and I’ve been struck through this conversation to some of your references to “let’s give it a go”, “give it a full go” … You seem to approach life quite in a, quite a laid back perspective. And I would imagine that really does help you tremendously in adapting to change, that you’re not going to be panic-stricken, you’re not going to over-think and be over-emotional about things. Has that always been you, that you’ve always been a pretty relaxed kind of person even in the face of huge pressure?
S: Ja, I’ve always been very calm. I think a lot of my teammates, the way I sit now and have a cup of coffee is pretty much how I feel before a game. And I don’t know what it is. The games that I haven’t played well, and there’s been many of them – I’ve always just asked myself the question, did I apply myself mentally. And if you applied yourself mentally and did all the prep you can do and you’re ready for it … Sometimes we’re human after all. You’re going to have a bad day. And I never seem to get too fussed about losing or making mistakes. Next week is another chance to rectify and improve and I’ve always been open to change and I’ve evolved my game over the years as well, because I wanted to change and I wanted try new things. And especially in South Africa I think the rugby landscape right now, where we’ve got such a high turnover of players, it is important to be open for change, because the culture I started in in 2002 surely can’t work for the new generation of players. So it is interesting and I think there are certain things that never change in life, but there are also a lot of things that keep on evolving and changing and I think I’ve been open to that in my career.
D: Finally, let’s just touch on your next adventure …
S: If I lose you … Sorry man, but I think this mobile phone’s battery is going, so …
D: Well hopefully we’ve got only one little bit left.
S: No problem.
D: Just to talk about the next phase, the next adventure. You’re off to England playing for Saracens. A two-year contact there. Do you feel that you’re bringing down the curtain on your time at Newlands, your time at Western Province and Stormers?
S: Ja, it’s a funny one. So you obviously play your whole career thinking there’s probably going to be a last one, or it’s coming and unfortunately for me it’s come to an end. But instead of being sad, I’m just grateful because a lot of my contemporaries would have loved to play at Newlands for 14 seasons, but through certain changes in life or injuries they had to move on, go play at different places. Cape Town’s the most wonderful place to play rugby. If it’s going tough it’s not that easy, but when it’s going well, it’s just special and for me … I grew up in this area. I grew up watching my dad playing at Newlands and I’ve got my whole family and friends’ support here and I’ve been privileged to play here for a long time. But you also get to a stage where you know that you’ve got to go for a new challenge. And these past two seasons I really enjoyed doing the dual contract with Japan and the Stormers and I think that sort of just opens your eyes that there’s other challenges, there’s other stuff that you’d like to go experience or conquer. So for me, I’m moving to North-London, to Saracens, which is obviously a great club. And I’m going there most importantly as a rugby player. I’m getting older and you realise I’ve only got X amount of years left and I don’t want to slow down too much. You still want a challenge and you still want to play in the Premier League and you want to play in Europe, which I think has got a great allure and who knows, one of these days South Africa will play up north, in franchise competition. So I’m looking forward to it, and because it’s a different culture you always come back and you’ve enriched yourself as a person. So I’m looking forward to it. It’s going to be a great challenge. Hopefully the body can hold up and I’m going to try and not slow down too much. I’ve always enjoyed the game, and this game is different. Especially in winter there, it puts different demands on your body and I’m looking forward to it.
D: What’s the longevity of a flanker? Is 34 long enough?
S: Well, I think it goes from player to player. You look at Richie – he was 35 last year when he finished. George Smith is still going. So I think every player’s body can take a set amount. I think George Smith has been privileged where he hasn’t had a lot of big injuries in his career, he’s been lucky. Richie had a couple of big ones, so you get a stage where I think the body tells you and more importantly the mind tells you it’s time to stop. So I’ve got two seasons left, then I’m 35. So let’s see. Obviously I want to play rugby for as long as possible. I think if I enjoy it and I play at the intensity and level I’m playing at now, I can play for as long as I want to. But you never know. In rugby things change very, very quickly.
D: Do you have a second career in mind, once the rugby comes to an end? Is there something that you’re passionate about that you’re going to steer your career in?
S: At this moment in time, I think not too much. You’ve got to ask yourself … The big question you’ve got to ask yourself when you’re finished with rugby is if you want to stay involved in rugby, either through TV or coaching or administration, or you want to move on. And it’s a tough one, I haven’t really come to a conclusion on that. Because I think you’ve played rugby for so long and you understand the team environment and culture so well, it will be easy for you to slot into a rugby environment and make a success out of it. But then there’s another part of me that wants to try something different. Whichever line of business … I want to have weekends for myself. And so you also want to become a fan. I want to organise my week around what the Springboks are doing in the weekend or what the Stormers are doing in the weekend or Saracens … So at this moment in time I’m not too sure. We’ve got the family business – the wine business in Wellington and I think I’ll get more involved in that, but I think that’s always going to stay a hobby for me. I’d like to try something different after my rugby career is finished.
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