With movies streaming over the Internet onto our screens, and journalists using smartphone apps to broadcast breaking news, TV in the 21st Century is a medium in the throes of change. And yet, there is one tradition that keeps the medium anchored to its roots, and sets the pace for its journey into the future.
And that is the age-old convention of the anchor: the guide, host, and facilitator who leads us into and behind the news, and helps us to make sense of these changing times.
A good anchor combines insight with curiosity, and a convivial presence with a relentless determination to get to the heart of the story. Bronwyn Nielsen, senior anchor on CNBC Africa, is one of the best in the business. She sat down, anchor to anchor, with Ruda, to chat about change, ambition, the joys of working in a field that doesn’t feel like work, and the challenges of bringing up a family in the frontline of the global business and media revolution.
Transcript:
R: Hello, and a very warm welcome to another session of the Change Exchange, and we have another beautiful woman … I’ve been doing interviews this morning, which you will see on this channel, and this is the second one today, so I am most privileged. Bronwyn Nielsen, so glad to have you here.
B: It’s great to be here, thanks very much, Ruda.
R: A hundred years ago, we worked very briefly at Carte Blanche.
R: Yes we did. Interesting time in my journalism career. One of the most valuable, and George Mazarakis will always go down in my history as one of the biggest influencers in teaching me how to make good television.
R: How to structure a story, how to find the right stuff …
B: Yes, absolutely.
R: Yes, indeed.
B: Can’t say I didn’t cry a lot of tears, but I think that’s part of the journey, to get in there.
R: So, how and when did you decide to go into journalism? Because that was not your original dream, was it?
B: No, it was.
R: From the word go?
B: When I was eight years old, living on a farm in the Natal Midlands, and I used to watch Jane Hicks, I used to watch yourself and Derek, and Gillian van Houten … and I decided I want to do the news. That was my overriding ambition … The only other thing that vied with that was potentially being a veterinarian, because I was very [inaudible] with animals and I was gonna go one path or the other but the television yearn was the overriding factor. In fact, a lot of my school colleagues, or I suppose school friends say to me today: “You’re the one person I know that told us all what you wanted to do from the beginning and you’ve managed to follow through on it.” So it’s always been what I wanted to do. I don’t think I had enough As to get into Onderstepoort to be a vet, so … But it was the overriding ambition to be on television.
R: And then, what the young students and so forth always ask … How does one start? Where did you start? How did you find the door?
B: So I … during my school years, I did a lot of extra murals in drama and studied through Trinity College of London. And when I got to deciding what to do after matric, I did have a relatively academic background and I didn’t feel the need to go into journalism to Rhodes at that point. I decided to go the B Com route – Bachelor of Commerce. And went on to UCT and studied Bachelor of Commerce with the overriding thought that it was going to give me credibility as a news reader … So I didn’t sway from the fact that I wanted to be in news or in broadcast journalism. I remember phoning the SABC desperately over that time, trying to get advice … Where do you start? Exactly the question you’re saying young people ask. How do you start, et cetera et cetera. And nobody could give me the answer. So I made my own way, and thought: “Right.” And following that path of doing a Bachelor of Commerce did give me credibility in a very tough arena. You know how competitive broadcasting is, so it certainly was one of the overriding factors when it came to deciding does she do the job, or not, well she has something slightly different.
R: She’s trained in something. So you started in radio?
B: Yes, I did. 94.7.
R: Did you enjoy radio?
B: I loved it. I actually can’t remember how my first opportunity on radio came about, my memory is now failing me. But I do remember very clearly my first bulletin. And I remember having such a dry mouth, I had to have a cup of tea next to me and whenever the sound bites came on, whenever the policeman spoke, superintendent et cetera et cetera said, I would take a sip of tea and try to make my mouth a little moist to proceed with the rest of the bulletin. So that I do remember very, very clearly. And, again I cut my teeth on writing the news, because that’s part of the job. It’s not just about reading a bulletin. It’s about understanding how to structure a script. And it was a very good training ground …
R: Yes, because that focuses the mind, absolutely. You only have about three paragraphs and you have to get all the relevant stuff in there. Immediately.
B: Absolutely.
R: Immediately. It’s a very good discipline.
B: It is a good discipline, and I believe it really held me in good stead throughout my career. Interestingly, the television opportunity came about … I did one audition … It was with Jeremy Maggs, I remember, for an early morning television show, on, I think it must have been SABC. I didn’t get that job, but Astrid Ascar, who started Summit Television, saw that audition somewhere along the line, and out of the blue, while I was at Highveld, I got a call to say: “Would you come and audition for this new Channel that we’re launching.”
R: How did you feel when you heard that?
B: First of all I was astounded, I was nervous, but I can’t tell you when I walked into that building – the Times Media building – Jane Hicks, Tracey Going, Manu Padayachee … and I thought I had arrived, because Jane was Queen Bee, she was like the face of business television as their kind-of key anchor, and suddenly I had this position as the baby anchor on business television, and Jane was the most amazing mentor anybody could possibly ever ask for. In fact, I owe a hell of a lot to the tricks of the trade that she taught me, and she really took me under her wing. And I spent a lot of time with Glen and Jane and it turned into a really good friendship. So that’s how it all started.
R: So what is it that one … for a young person out there … if you get that first job, how should you approach it? What is the secret to long term success?
B: You’ve got to love what you do. I think there are a lot of media people – and it probably was like that with you as well – I have never seen what I do as a job. I think you’ve got to be passionate, you’ve got to find your passion and if you find your passion, you’re going to be successful. I couldn’t think of anything worse than going into a job for the sake of a job’s sake.
R: For the sake of a check at the end of the month?
B: Exactly. I think then, you’re on a highway to nowhere, because that is the majority of your time. You take … the week is seven days long. Five of those days, from eight to five, you’re generally in a work environment. So best you choose something that you really like. So that would be my advice to everybody out there. It’s that you will be successful if you find your passion. And you’ve got to give yourself the freedom to do that.
R: But I also hear discipline. If you say had to learn to write news, that speaks of hours behind a desk with many scripts, either pressing delete or crumpling them up and chucking them in the bin … it’s a discipline.
B: It was a discipline. And when I speak to young journalists that work in the CNBC Africa fold now, my one overriding point of advice is: “Never ask a question that you do not understand.”
R: Yes.
B: So for me, I remember those early days when I was interviewing Paul Harris from First Rand who was then the CEO for the results, I would spend three days going through the First Rand results, understanding every element of debtors and creditors. And I used to look at Jane – again Jane Hicks – who would just waltz on to the set and managed to conduct these interviews without any sense of nervousness, and that, I understand now, is experience. What I saw in her is what I feel today – I can sit down and the very thorough process that I’ve gone through in understanding companies and understanding management and leadership styles and the people behind these companies is to be able to sit down now and to have those conversations that I saw Jane having a few years ago.
R: And it also gets easier. Once you’ve studied in company reports, the 11th one is easier.
B: Exactly. And also there’s the formula. I always say that you can talk about yesterday, today and tomorrow and you can get through any interview. What happened yesterday, where are we today, and where are we going tomorrow – especially in the business environment, so there’s a trick for everybody who want to do the business game.
R: In this quite male dominated chauvinist society of ours, still, did you have a problem making people take you seriously? The captains of industry, most of whom were men ten years ago.
B: I’m sure that their opinion was that I was a young blonde girl …
R: A poppie?
B: A poppie, I’m sure. I didn’t think so. I thought I had done enough work to get this right.
R: And that makes the difference, right?
B: Yes.
R: That you don’t see yourself like that, and whatever they think is …
B: Irrelevant. As long as I knew, I knew what I was talking about, and I think that after a while people start to realise that I did actually know what I was talking about. And then their initial thoughts of me would evaporate because I was able to challenge, and you can only challenge once you really understand the subject matter.
R: Preparation, preparation, preparation.
B: It’s the key. And you’ll always be a winner if you’re prepared.
R: You’re now … what is it? Executive Director of Africa Business News. What does that entail? Is it a managerial post, or is it still content?
B: It is, so as executive director, Forbes Africa, the print magazine, and CNBC Africa fall into the fold. So we’ve got the television and the magazine elements and also the digital elements and then also the digital element at CNBCAfrica.com. My slant is very much still to the content side, so I’m actually editor in chief of CNBC Africa, and that is a demanding role. We’ve got an Africa-wide network, and we’ve got a bureau in Nairobi, we’ve got a bureau in Lagos, we’ve got a bureau in Kigali and we broadcast eight hours of live business content across the African continent daily. So you have to be all-seeing all over, understand it, because the risk is as you wear that title, editor in chief, if something goes wrong, it comes back to you.
R: But I hear taking responsibility.
B: You do take responsibility. The buck stops with somebody and you can’t blame somebody else. Ultimately you are the decision maker and a lot of what I learned and have learned in different circumstances is that you need to have processes in place that safeguard people being able to make errors on media platforms. And that process rests with me. It’s not anybody else’s fault. You’ve just got to say that your processes weren’t right.
R: Yoh, hard lessons. Very hard lessons!
B: Africa … talk about change … Africa is an amazing, amazing playground. It’s not for sissies, and we’ve done the hard yards. We’ve been running the network now for eight years – I was the second employee for the network and I spend a lot of time in Lagos, in Nairobi, in Kigali, in Accra … so travelling the continent and understanding the business environment in each of these different countries is in itself a challenge, because nothing is … there’s no copy and paste solution in the 48 countries that we broadcast to in Sub-Saharan Africa. There’s huge income disparity and you are constantly aware of that. So I think that when it’s right there in front of you, you realise that there’s so much still that needs to be done in terms of uplifting people on the African continent that there are many, many hard yards to walk. What we’ve been very fortunate, as a network, is uncovering the business story. Eight years ago, people, when we started broadcasting …
R: It wasn’t known at all.
B: People were, like, we’re not interested in Africa. What on earth are you talking to …
R: Another famine?
B: … Kenya, Nairobi, or … and now, suddenly, four years ago that changed completely. People started phoning saying Bronwyn … CEOs would phone and say: “I’m in Lagos, would you mind interviewing me from South Africa?” Why? Because people are trying to prove now that they have their feet on the ground in different African countries.
R: You say very specifically four years ago. Why?
B: Four years ago suddenly Africa became the new Holy Grail in terms of investment, in terms of investment destination.
R: From South Africa?
B: People went looking … from international … and also South Africans saying suddenly … maybe there isn’t that much growth left in South Africa, so it’s coming out of Nigeria which has got a 165 million people, Nairobi and East Africa is also a hugely viable investment opportunity … Four years ago people just noticed that you could make money elsewhere in Africa. Remember …
R: It was a tipping point.
B: It was a tipping point.
R: Remember? What were you saying?
B: South Africa has been the laggard in the Africa growth story. As South Africa’s story wanes, the rest of Africa has shone very brightly. And people in the business community are always looking for the next best opportunity, return on investment, and that certainly has been the rest of Africa. Although, again, you know, I say it is not easy. And we look now at MTN and what’s happening with MTN and the $5.2 billion fine and Woolworths, another example, a company that decided to spread outside South Africa, established in Nigeria and then basically got out of Nigeria very quickly again. So it’s difficult to operate in the rest of Africa. But, if you get it right, then I think you are a winner.
R: But so, on top of all this, you are in a very close relationship, you say, for eight years? Tell me about your partner?
B: He is … you know when you meet the person that you’re supposed to spend your life with? That’s my partner.
R: What’s his name?
B: Ian. Ian Harrison. We’ve got two beautiful children, Kate and Daniel. Kate is six and Daniel is four – they’re both September babies, in fact, myself, my daughter and my son are all September, Virgos, so my poor husband.
R: But you were saying when you met?
B: When we met, we actually met many years ago at university, so we’ve known each other for a very long time. And I had a prior marriage which … We talk about Change, but it was in the early phase of my career and I think … I really did believe that you could have everything. I don’t believe that anymore. I believe that you have to make sacrifices and one of the sacrifices that I made early on in my career was sacrificing my first relationship and my first marriage.
R: You were just not present enough?
B: I wasn’t present enough. You hit the nail in the head. I wasn’t present enough. I was too … you know, ego is one of those things that you … Somebody said something very pertinent to me the other day. And he said that as you learn, you learn about things that you don’t know about yourself and that you eliminate them along the way. And I think he spoke about ego and greed and about anger, and if you make decisions in any of those states of mind, you will most probably make a mistake. And I think ego was a very big part of my initial phase of life. I was very, very captured by being on camera, being on TV, having a widespread audience, but you learn.
R: It’s an easy pitfall, because the celebrity industry in this country is very small, and the moment your face becomes known, you’re on the covers and I remember being 32 or something ridiculous and being on the covers of things, and it’s hard.
B: It is.
R: Hard to learn to live with that.
B: And I used to remember … people used to tap me on the shoulder in Woolworths in Cape Town and say: “Gosh, you’re much thinner in real life than you are on camera.” And I don’t even know if that was a compliment – is it right to look fat on camera, or should they be telling me it’s the other way around. You’re going to struggle with this the whole time. People feel that they can just say something to you at any stage … You know the game. People must have …
R: Ja…
B: … on repeated occasions just thinking that they know you because you’re in their house every Sunday.
R: But when did you and your partner get together again?
B: So I got divorced, and kind of worked my way through my career. Then I really put head down into … it was that time that we met, at Carte Blanche. I was working at Summit, I was also operating investor relations at Dimension Data. So I was burning the candle at all ends. And some time after that, kind of the career part just quietened down. It got a lot more controlled. I accepted the job at CNBC Africa, they were launching. And we went through a crazy launch phase where we were all getting to grips with a new television channel and new ways of doing things. And about a year into that, Ian and I reconnected and all the career stuff had kind of settled. I was very grounded in terms of what I believe, I had grown quite a lot …
R: And was that also … Were you aware of the choice at the time? That I’m going to give this priority? Which I may not have done the previous time?
B: Yes. Yes. Because I knew that, that was the person that I was going to have children with. I knew.
R: And the kids? How did they change you?
B: Hugely. Hugely. I was an animal person beforehand, and I really was one of those women who didn’t think she was going to have children, but, as I said, the defining factor with Ian was that that was the man … if I was going to have children, it was going to be with him. So when Kate came along – you know as a mother – it fundamentally changes your makeup and what I realised is that now, where previously I would have … I still am very much an animal oriented person, but now children on the side of the road break my heart. I can’t bear the fact that a child may be alone or hurt or injured, so I know that that is a fundamental change that has taken place in …
R: A priority shift?
B: Exactly. And that is the greatest love that you could possibly have. I think it makes you incredibly vulnerable – there’s not one day that I go through that I don’t just have a fleeting second what if something happens to my children. You’ve got to push those thoughts out of your mind. My brother died, so I know very much what it is to lose somebody in your immediate family.
R: How old was he and how old were you?
B: He was 19 and I was 21. And it destroyed my parents. So yes, it makes you vulnerable having children and … but … I think that even for the vulnerability I wouldn’t change anything. I’m a little more scared about everything. I do have a hell of a lot of life insurance and that’s specifically because I travel a lot through Africa and every time I get on that plane, I think … I have a sense of security. “Well, it would be terrible if I didn’t make it, but at least all that life insurance is going to make Ian and Kate and Daniel very comfortable. I supposed sometimes you’ve got to look at those things. And I suppose that’s life insurance … I’m probably a good advert for life insurance.
R: And your home? Where do you live and what is it like and why did you choose it?
B: We live in Melrose North, and it’s a huge property.
R: Big trees and old?
B: Big trees, it’s got a tennis court …
R: Do you play?
B: I play, I’m not good. But we … So anyway. We’ve got a beautiful house, it was one of those where you walk in, and it’s also why I know I’m with the right man, because he took me to this house … We spent months and months looking, and the house was not something that anybody would venture into and decide that it was easy to live there. But I was very happy to go along with the story and we had this vision … And I remember we brought a couple of people over … I don’t think they bought into our vision, thinking “what are these people doing”. Anyway, we pretty much bashed everything down, and it’s white, which sounds strange with two children … Very big open windows. It feels as though you’re in those trees – those old trees that you speak about. The house, when you walk into it has just got trees all around and it’s our perfect space. We spend a lot of time at the nursery with the kids, buying fuchsias and azaleas and then going home and planting them with the kids. So that’s for me downtime. And it’s very special to have my kids running through the nursery and it feels very special.
R: You’re someone who plans. So what’s the picture for the next ten years?
B: Yes. I’m learning to actually stop thinking about tomorrow. Most of my career I started thinking about what’s next. What’s the next goal that I need to aim for. Now, and it sounds clichéd because people say you’ve got to learn to live in the moment, I really think I am starting to be just really happy with today. The way that I can perhaps best illustrate this is that usually, if I had a debate or something significant happening in a day’s time it usually preoccupies me and you’re not present. You know when we said when you’re not present in your life? These days I am present and it’s almost a surprise when I get to executing what I need to execute. I’m not so much thinking about tomorrow. So yes, I like to plan. Right now I’m very challenged. We’ve got a lot to … We’re eight years old as a network. There are new things, new fires to put out, new mountains to conquer. And so it’s not as though I am sitting back and not progressing, but right now I am just happy with how things are and there’s enough challenge. Because I do like change. I don’t like to get bored, and this job doesn’t bore me. It’s keeping me … It’s learning how to manage people, it’s taking a step back as I am editor in chief I’ve still got visibility on air, but it’s also giving space to a younger team to come through. I’ve taken myself off prime time to make sure that that is not a conflict, that people feel that they ever need to compete with me. And I’m running the channel from a content perspective. And those have been really grown up decisions that I’ve made. So I’m enjoying that. And I’m also really enjoying nurturing new talent. So that’s what tomorrow right now holds. And mostly, I want to try and be a good mom. I do. Mostly I want to be a great mom – I want my kids to … At the moment I feel that I’m a little absent, because I travel a lot …
R: Physically?
B: Yes, physically. I try and be present when … I mean, I am. I explained to you that I stopped thinking about tomorrow and kind of more in the moment, but from a travel perspective and perhaps I can best illustrate that with … I’ve just come back from China, it’s the third year in a row that I’ve hosted an African event at the World Economic Forum in China, and every … I leave on my birthday, because this is the period that it happens over, and then Kate’s got hers on the ninth, two days after mine. And usually I’m sitting in that hotel room realising that she’s waking up without me. And I organise the balloons and the cakes and checking with Ian please make sure she’s got this, et cetera et cetera. But, this time around I made a little video link to myself on my iPad and I said right, you’re not going to listen to anybody else, you’re going to listen to yourself. Please do not accept this gig again – here I’m telling you you’re sitting and you’re lonely and you’re the other side of the world and you should be with your family. So I’ve got that link, please let me listen to myself. And you know, if you don’t listen to anybody else, you’ve got to simply … I don’t want to be sitting here in a year’s time, saying no, I went to China on my daughter’s birthday. And sometimes you’ve actually got to … I do a lot of that. I sit down in coffee shops, and I’m having a dilemma and people must think I’m completely insane, but I sit with my cappuccino and I talk to myself. And I go: “Really, is that as bad as you think it is? Or don’t you think you should rather think about things this way? And I kind of have to psycho analyse myself and come up with a solution.
R: Well with that kind of life lesson, thank you very much. It was great. It was very good to see you again.
B: Thanks Ruda. Lovely to sit down with you.
R: And all of the very best. Until next time.
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