He may be best known to South African television viewers for his shirtless tango on Strictly Come Dancing, and his dashing smile and debonair style as the host of Espresso.
But long before Graeme Richards made a household name for himself, he was just a starry-eyed kid growing up in the rural outpost of Mooi River in KwaZulu-Natal, where his first taste of showbiz was his starring role as the mischevious Tom Sawyer in a school production.
Since then, Graeme has worked his way through the industry with zestful determination, trying his hand at everything from continuity announcer to video producer to online entrepreneur to morning-show presenter.
But the going hasn’t always been easy, as Graeme tells Ruda in this candid and revealing interview, which delves into his darkest days as well as the bright lights and glamour of his calling – simply being himself for a living.
Transcript:
R: Hello, and a very warm welcome, once again, to the Change Exchange. My guest is someone who is as at home in front of the camera as I may be – Graeme Richards – Expresso anchor at the moment – one of … And MC, voice artist, actor … What else? Entrepreneur?
G: Well, first of all, very excited at the moment, just hearing your voice say my name is quite a treat, so …
R: Are you another one who is going to say I grew up with you?
G: No, well I … My friends call me former child star, because I started so young, so I think we probably went through a lot of the same gateways together, but I … If anything, I’m probably just professionally myself. I think I’m blessed to have a career that I’m yet to define what it is that I actually do, but I get to be myself every day and do these wonderful things, but …
R: So many people would give their left arm for that.
G: Completely.
R: You started as … At a boarding school? In KwaZulu Natal? And it wasn’t one of the smart ones. It was a lesser-known one, which meant a lot in your life?
G: Very much so. I think past alumni from Treverton and teachers would be upset about it being a lesser-known school, but I think where …
R: Sorry …
G: A lot of that elitist nature that is so often associated to the KZN schools … That certainly didn’t exist there. It was very wildlife orientated, very outdoor orientated. I know people often ask me if I studied animal husbandry and such, it wasn’t an agricultural school, but it did have a farm and it meant riding horses every weekend and I was a little city delinquent. I was terrified of everything when I went there. I think I was quite a handful for my poor mom, who is the most amazing person and I think she really felt the need to give me some structure and give me some positive male influence in my life and I remember taking … She took me to this trade fair where the school had a climbing wall and there were these guys shimming up and down like Spiderman. She said does this look like a school that you would like to go to? And I said oh ja. And she said well, you’ve got to maintain an 85% average and you can get a scholarship and then you can go.
R: Treverton? In Mooiriver?
G: In Mooirivier, ja. Tiny little town, and at the time I was there was a huge amount of political unrest as well in that area. It was a real hotbed, so unbeknownst to me there was subconsciously or consciously I was getting a real lesson of where South Africa was as well, but it absolutely shaped me. I’m so blessed to have gone there.
R: But your first time on stage was also in Mooirivier as Tom Sawyer?
G: That was definitely … That was my first award-winning performance. But I was so lucky … Mrs Lanham, and I still remember your name, Mrs Lanham … She was our drama teacher, but we used to put on these productions where parents would come from all over the country literally to come and watch this production at the Mooirivier Town Hall, and it really did plant that seed, so I was so lucky to have that influence that early on, and I think once the bug bit I just jumped on that.
R: Well you started doing television presentation while you were still at school?
G: Yeah.
R: And did you just … How did you relate to the camera? Did it just feel natural? Feel easy?
G: Ja, I often … I wonder about it now, because I think you … Maybe you’ve gone through this gateway. Every time you disconnect from the camera, and it takes a while to get that fitness back and that connection, but I think I’ve always made a strong connection with people and for me, that’s what a camera is. I think as soon as you look beyond it being … It’s not a million people sitting in an auditorium, it’s one person sitting in their lounge maybe in their underpants. You just don’t … It’s a very personal space and I think once you understand that it’s not about you and it’s about that and then of course you get this unbelievable validation and yes you get the negative feedback as well, but that feeling of being able to connect, of being able to be a part of much bigger stories and these amazing people and sportsmen – especially being a bit of a sports nut – so ja, I think you can tell by the amount I talk I was destined to go in that direction, but I was just lucky.
R: But you worked … I found it quite interesting … You worked as a continuity presenter, which means you had to read scripts that other people wrote, and then promptly went off and became a scriptwriter?
G: Yeah.
R: Was that a comment on the quality of the scripts?
G: You know … I say this all due respect … I was so lucky to have my career born within the SABC at a time when there were massive holes within very key structures. And I have this thing that I just don’t say no, so soon as someone says can you write? Ja, no, no, I can write. Can you use a camera? Ja, of course. Knowing that I had a friend or someone that could phone to say listen, how do you turn it on and how do you focus and what do you do. And I worked with a gentleman by the name of Keith Fife when I was working for SABC1, and he used to produce the Miss South Africas and had really big ideas and amazing lost children campaigns and all these things you wanted to do and think he was a kindred spirit and really took me under his wing. And I just remember when I wrote the script for the first Miss South Africa that I presented when I was 19 years old, walking into this room with the Ken Kirstens and people at the peak of their career and it was Sun City Superbowl and the rebirth of that and thinking oh my god, I’m a child and I think they kind of treated me as such, but I love to write. I won’t say I’m the best writer, but I love being able to express myself like that.
R: So did you write your own … Did they allow you to write your own script?
G: They paid me to write my own script and I think I …
R: Amazing, doll!
G: I monopolised SABC Sport, which was then called Maboneng, as soon as I found a hole or an inadequacy and again, I had Melinda Barnard who was a brilliant producer who was taking us out to the locations every week and doing amazing stuff, but there were so many holes in the production model that required people to do more and grow their skills. So I just … I started writing for this and voicing for that and presenting over there and I think at one point I was probably working on about eight different productions within the SABC, just climbing that ladder of inadequacy wherever I went, and as soon as I saw a hole, I would just kind of fill that gap.
R: Did you ever consider getting formal education? Tertiary education?
G: Many times! I think having been blessed and cursed with the attention span of a three year old I just …
R: A Labrador puppy?
G: I’ll study when I’m about 60. When I rediscover my youth and maybe I’ll do some philosophy or something along those lines. But I find in our job you’re always being thrown in the deep end. You’re always being pushed so far beyond what you know, and generally alongside someone who has gravitas. Someone who has … You can’t hope to match a judge advocate on his knowledge base, so you start to learn the tricks of the trade and you could probably lecture me for hours on this, but that human space, that authentic … And that’s something that I really do enjoy, so I think for me the honing of the skills has been very much about rising to the challenge and the moment and less than being prepared to make myself feel more comfortable or less nervous or those sorts of things. I love that feeling of when everyone else is losing their mind and my earpiece is literally shaking in my ear and my director’s having a fit out of fear … That’s really when I find my calm centre in the storm. But I would love to study.
R: How did you experience morning television? You started … When was it? 2008 with eTV?
G: With eTV? That was wonderful. I’m working under Nicholas Maphopha, an old friend who had also moved across from the SABC and Sindy Mabe who was like a kindred … We couldn’t have been more different, the most odd couple on TV, but we just had this instant connection and that … I mean, being untrained, stepping into a room where everyone had a journalism degree or such, and this massive new system worth hundreds of millions that had been modelled on this very American model and it was wonderful. I think I could … If I spoke about something, they would just bring it up. There would be visuals because the system had it and I became a bit of a megalomaniac in that space. it was just … It was so far beyond anything that I experienced before and it was going into 2010, it was the World Cup, I was sitting at a table next to Sep Blatter … I was there right in the mix, so that was absolutely phenomenal. But not being a morning person and still not being a morning person my creativity kicks in at about 11 o clock at night, it’s difficult. And I still battle and thankfully I’m surrounded by very forgiving people who know my buttons and how many cups of coffee I need to … Hennie, I love you! I love you, Hennie! He’s our chief technician who still takes the time to bring me coffee every 20 minutes.
R: You said that Expresso is very special, because it sets out to motivate and inspire? Is that an Expressed motto?
G: What it is, it’s the feel-good. And I think it took me a while … I was so jaded with South African TV when I moved to Cape Town. I thought I was just going to act and climb the mountain and grow a beard … A proper beard. And after I had left eTV I really thought, okay, the presenting days are behind me and I kind of need to follow that deep dream of being an actor, and like so many of our jobs do, it just happened completely coincidentally that I bumped into an executive producer who knew someone else who knew Patience Stevens who kind of, I remember, having my first meeting with Patience and just basically we spoke about sport for about two hours and we really got each other enthused and I could feel her passion and that was a good indication of this might be an opportunity to do it slightly differently and be authentic and as much as I had always been striving to do … Because I’m not polished and I talk too much and my hands are in the air and if you had to write a rule book of what a presenter should do I probably wouldn’t tick 90% of those boxes, but for me it really is about that authenticity and that was the only way I was ever going to get back onto TV, is if I could really be authentic and find that place. And now I’m on this ridiculous platform, the Mickey Mouse Club for grownups or something where we sing and dance and cook and … But I’m surrounded by the most amazing people, and I … You’ve interviewed Kat a number of times, Elana you know, and Zoe, Leanne and we’ve all become a family and I think Cape Town has this way of … Because people come … It’s such an eclectic mix of people here that you’re forced to make connections and bonds and I feel like … People say Cape Town is clicky, and I couldn’t disagree more. To me it feels like I’ve been forced to make new friends and forced to make even deeper connections here and now I’ve got this show where every morning I get to have a positive influence on people’s lives. And that … In the world that we live in at the moment it’s … Yes, it’s easy to point out mistakes, it’s easy to point out what’s going wrong, there are soap–boxes everywhere and yes, we do need to get up there and shout our message, but the bottom line is what we all desperately need, is to choose to be positive and we give people ways of being able to do that and that’s remarkable.
R: Tell me a little bit more about the decision to leave Johannesburg? What were you reacting against? What were you choosing for?
G: I think I was a bit of a mess at the time. There were a couple of things that kind of all … As life often does kind of forces these gateways on you …
R: That’s about 10 years ago?
G: Feels like yesterday, but it really must be. It’s probably about eight years now. In my personal life I convinced my best mates to start a company with me, we were punching so far above our weight class, doing amazing work. Had three massive clients close down in about a month …
R: In what field?
G: In video production. Online media, which was unheard of at that stage. We were forcing people to set up these online media production hubs and doing the most amazing stuff, and I was busy explaining to people what bandwidth meant. That was where the market was, and if you think of how primed it is at the moment, how that digital divide has just been completely obliterated. So we were doing ground-breaking, amazing stuff, but we learnt some massive lessons. I’m sorry, but you hear the clichés of having to go through the firing business and fail three times before you really know what works, and it’s not necessarily that simple, but you’ve got to go through certain gateways or face certain challenges and we had everything stripped away from us. Everything! You know, selling cars, pawing everything you own, tasting a level of hopelessness that was just beyond anything that I had experienced, and gave me huge empathy and well of strength that I never knew I possessed. And around that time when I thought I had hit rock bottom, I had been through a couple of horrible experiences, crime-wise, but nothing that I felt like I couldn’t handle or that I deserved – they just felt like I was there for a reason, and then something happened to my ex-girlfriend and that I just couldn’t let go of, I couldn’t move beyond it. And neither could she, and she fought and saved herself, which I think is an amazing thing, and empowering for her, but it just broke me, and I think I felt there was a part of me that was feeling so violent and that’s not a happy, resting place to have those kind of violent thoughts. It’s almost homicidal fantasies where I would just see someone, imagining them doing something, and want to ring their neck. And it was just such an unhealthy space to be in, and I know there are a lot of South Africans, a lot of people across the globe who have experienced violence a certain level and I’m lucky that I’ve been able to process it. I’ve got an amazing family, I’ve …
R: How does one get beyond that? Just moving doesn’t do it.
G: Yeah, you forget about yourself. I think that’s the thing. I’ve … Whenever I’ve had negative influences or negative repercussions in my life, it’s generally because I’ve become too self-orientated and then you move out of that space and you start thinking deeply about other people and doing bigger things and more meaningful things for other people …
R: Make it practical?
G: Yeah, very much so. I came down here and I climbed the mountain for probably about three weeks and when I say climbed, I climbed and I grew the beard and I turned into this mountain man freak that I was worried I was not going to be able to connect again with society.
R: Did your relationship also break up at the same time?
G: It did. And I think not necessarily just a direct result of that, but it was certainly part of that. And she’s gone on to do amazing things and she needed to obviously move through that herself, and I’m really proud of the way that she … The funny thing is that night that she got attacked, we had been watching … You mention boarding school … We were watching an EFC tournament and I started explaining to her how you defend yourself when you’re being attacked by a much bigger guy at boarding school, because I was tiny. My best mate was Shorty and he was about an inch taller than me, and he was just so named because he was there a year before me, so he got the nickname before me and I just … It was … I just remember always having to defend myself at boarding school, you’re always fighting and back then it was very physical and that’s the way that you survive those things. So, I don’t want to say that poor attacker, but I think it was the first time in his life. And he actually got caught two weeks after that, because he changed his modus operandi because he never had someone fight back, and she fought her life and she defended herself and it was something that was truly amazing to me, and I think it allowed both of us to move beyond that.
R: Okay, but now I want to take you back to now you’re on Table Mountain for three weeks, and then?
G: I think, a lot of that was not so much wanting to put my life at risk … And I was doing crazy things and free climbing sections of the mountain that I’ve since gone back to and tried to climb, and I love – I spend a lot of time on the mountain – but I’ve … I just can’t do it. And it wasn’t out of a sense of letting go or wanting to die or give up on my family …
R: Almost a kind of long term hysteria?
G: Ja, it really was. I think it was just such a disconnect and I really lost my way in many respects, but I also … I needed to really prove to myself how much I really did want to be alive and how much I did want to embrace the good things in my life and I was unfulfilled. I felt like I kept getting so close doing these amazing things. Whether it was in TV, in entrepreneurship or in philanthropy. I was doing these amazing things, but never quite taking it to the place that I wanted to, and that’s …
R: And then?
G: I think there was a day where I woke up and I was staying in my mother’s flat at that stage … She had gone up to Johannesburg … Probably it was a bit of an intervention, I think. I think she was just … Had isolated me in Cape Town and said just do your thing and when you’re right, connect with us again. And I remember waking up in her bed and looking up on the wall. She had a photo wall of our whole family’s history, literally. And the chief male influence in my life was my grandfather, who sadly passed away when I was quite young, but a very old school gentleman. A beautiful man, who did amazing things in the time of apartheid and he certainly stood out as a South African, an exemplary example of what South Africans could have been at that time, so I was so lucky to have that as the example and there was one particular photo of him obviously fresh out of World War II, and that … I just couldn’t look at that picture without feeling shame at not just getting up and doing something. It bizarre, but there was definitely a moment there, and I just remember getting out of bed, putting some shoes on and going for this run. I literally ran around Cape Town about 50km or something and just worked through things, worked through things. And just having that shift and the next week, bumped into the right person at the right time and everything just unfolded and I’m … I’ve been so lucky, I feel like I …
R: Was that when you got the Expresso job?
G: Yes. And it was unplanned and as I said, I was almost not wanting to get back into TV and it’s quite a push to actually … To do that.
R: But you also said that philanthropy played a huge role, and when you’ve been in a dark place you’ve almost used that?
G: I think … And I won’t so consciously, it just seems to be the pattern that’s emerged, and I think fast forward a block or rewind maybe a decade before that dark period when I was about 19, 20 again with a group of mates … An amazing man, Pepsi Pokane still does a lot of producing and we were actually at school together. We had moved in together, we had started a little company together and we were doing things, and again we had done an event around Stop Child Abuse – a particular organisation that was working with one of our big sponsors – was an alcohol brand and everything had been a huge success and then I got a phone call on the Monday morning from the managing director of that particular brand saying we can’t be associated with anything related to child abuse or domestic abuse. We’re an alcohol brand and it’s just not allowed. And I think I was about 21 at that stage and then I realised we’re not going to get the R50 000, and then that R50 000 became about R200 000 and I had mates who were at first year in varsity and youngsters coming drawing their daily limit of R300 and giving it to me and it was a crazy time, but for some reason I had met … There was a youngster named Moetsi Tsotsetsi who was … I didn’t realise when he first met me, he was a street kid who had taken himself out of a location in Harrismith when he was 10 years old, lived in town his whole life, kept himself in school, had helped his little brother do the same, was on and off the streets, staying at a particular place called Paradise City that thankfully has since been closed down, that was just an abusive, terrible place and he came to me one day, saying that he was just embarrassed, he needed to wash his clothes because he’s starting to smell and he wants to go back to school. And I thought, okay, I can do that for you. And then what happens after that? Are you just going to go back and sleep on the street and become and he had become a mate, he used to bring me his report cards and things like that. And it was this just like weird kind of big brother type relationship, and I thought, okay, do something here. You can crash here tonight, and I remember going to … All I could afford that night … And this was while I was still doing presenting jobs, being on TV, having to present this guise of being successful and living the Top Billing in life and that sort of thing. And all I could afford was a packet of two minute noodles and a roll that we shared, and he was just looking at me. And just he couldn’t compute that this white guy on TV was in such a hectic situation. And I remember asking him, like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? And he didn’t understand what I was asking him. He had never in his life had an emotional conversation. No-one had ever stopped and said listen, are you okay? Not just fine, how are you, but are you really okay? I thought no, this is ridiculous. If I have been able to save myself through these situations and hustle, let’s hustle. I starting phoning, and within an hour I turned his life around. I got him into Twilight Children, and in order to pay them back I had helped Twilight Children get a Ster Kinekor sponsorship and just started applying all of the things that I knew in the industry. And that just evolved into a three-year campaign of Moetsi and I just looking for sponsorships, being on news programs and when the hard sell wasn’t working, I’d bring in the street child and say just say no to him and let’s see how it goes. And that … Apart from giving me some amazing skills and unbelievable moments … I mean … To say that from starting out on the street, Moetsi and his younger brother … His younger brother has now just qualified as a lawyer from UJ, so I certainly not …
R: And Moetsi?
G: Sadly, we’ve lost touch it’s something that breaks my heart … And I really hope you see this somewhere out there, but I think he always for himself has been too far gone, and I don’t think he thought that he could find his way back to society. And often we would have to go and identify with kids that we were trying to get into Twilight, where he would look them in the eye and say okay, yes, can we say … No, it’s too late. And as heart-breaking as it is, I understood in retrospect, looking at the kids that did fall out of the system or the ones that would get into Greenside High for two years and they just wouldn’t be able to change, to adopt the rules and when you think you have been free, but completely for your whole life, and now to have to try and fit into a box like that, it was impossible. But I just … When I look back, I’m very proud that I … Even as a young guy … Was doing these things that … And not as an organisation or as … Just as a human being. And I feel so lucky to have experienced these things. When I talk to the majority of people that live in my world, they just have no inkling …
R: Yes Graeme, but that’s so far removed from the image. And I think if you Google Graeme Richards, it’s Strictly Come Dancing, of course. So, what happened there? How did you get involved?
G: Oh my word … And again I say …
R: Why did you say yes? Did you not realise what it was going to be?
G: I have a rule that I say yes to everything. And the funny thing is I thought like years before that … Someone had said you should do Strictly. And I said no buddy. I could really not do Strictly.
R: Why? Don’t you think you have rhythm?
G: I was devoid of musicality. Love to dance, love to sing, can’t do either. Or at least couldn’t. And I’ve always been surrounded by these musical savants and it’s not different at Expresso with the likes of Kat around me at the moment. But I just kind of always knew somehow … And this is going to sound completely bizarre. And I had this vision of meeting The Person – The One – doing Strictly. And this was after it had been cancelled. I had gone to support Emmanuel Castis, a mate of mine, years before … he eventually won, with Lindsey, my current girlfriend. And I didn’t even meet her then. I had no connection to her whatsoever.
R: But you had this dream.
G: I had this dream, this image. And I was saying to … It was a judge or someone at a particular dance production who was saying you should do Strictly, and I was just wait, I have a feeling that something is going to come, and True as Bob, two years later it came back on the fold and they asked if I’d like to do it and with it being on SABC3 and me being on Expresso there was an opportunity to do that. And I thought, well, just try and see. But I did phone my agent and said listen, and I don’t mean this the wrong way, but please make sure that my partner is not married because I just have a feeling about this situation.
R: And when you saw her the first time? Was there …
G: Instant connection. Ja, shame. I think she was a little terrified because I do come with a lot of energy and I never stop talking, as you well know, now. And ja, I think she enjoyed the fact that I was fit and that she could just train me for kind of seven to 15 hours a day. And I loved it.
R: And when did you know that this relationship could actually last?
G: Do you ever really know these things? I’m always kind of all in. That’s just my personality type, and I’ve been single for quite a while before doing that. I had been down in Cape Town for about two years, but about two weeks in … You know what it was? It was the rumba. It was Bruno Mars and the rumba and being this close to a person for seven hours a day.
R: How could you not?
G: We developed a depth of connection so quickly that it just was impossible, undeniable to both of us. And she achieved miracles with me. It was just difficult when coming back to the real world, for me to become the boss in the relationship after she kind of set the boundaries and the rules for our first three months.
R: Are you now her boss?
G: Well, at least to some say in the matter. And it’s … Ja … I think one of her biggest lessons teaching me was that the male always leads, and you’ve got to do so with respect and we do a huge amount of work with young dancers now, especially young men, to teach them that grounding of chivalry and what it means to be a gentleman and how to be a strong man. Art gives you so much opportunity to do that.
R: It is now three and a half years later, and it’s not glamorous every day. So how do you keep the relationship fit?
G: Well we work really hard at it. I think like everyone who has had a successful … And I mean, we’ve gone through really tough times. We’ve had to redefine who we are as people, I’ve been able to help her move out of that competitive dance phase … I mean, she’s a four-time British champion. She’s one of the best dancers in the world and having to move into a space where she commercialised that skill and start adapting to the South African market – she’s from the UK.
R: So have you started a dance school?
G: She teaches. We put on productions. We’ve done amazing things together. Together we put on the most awesome dance production, I think purely just to both be on a stage together and dance again where we had kids from the most amazing dance schools in Delft and areas like that, that seem hopeless on the outside, yet you find these kind of … These upspring and these wells of creativity in that, and she loves to teach. I think that is definitely one of her …
R: And how has it changed you to be part of a couple, not just a dancing couple, but a real, an emotional, practical couple?
G: It’s …
R: It’s a different space.
G: Very much so. And I think, what really has defined our relationship is just the partnership element. And we’re both very strong and very fiery. I come from a family of very strong women and I think it took her a while to get used to the conflict model where nothing festers, you sort it out, you deal with it and it’s out there and you do it. And she’s now certainly embraced that and that again has now been a learning curve to adjust for this next phase of life that we’re entering into. We learn every day, but it’s amazing to have a partner that really sees it as that – a partnership – and is willing to work and …
R: Stand shoulder to shoulder with you.
G: Probably head and shoulders above, but …
R: And how do you …
G: She’s strong, which is amazing.
R: How do you feel about the prospect of being a father? How far along are you?
G: It’s tomorrow, basically. It feels like the little man is coming … The 27th of April is the due date, and I cannot wait. I grew up without a father and had a mother that was very much a father figure and a mother figure and everything else and did such an amazing job. So I already have a lot of pressure to follow on that part of being an aware, an emotional, spiritual person. I want to be that for him, but there’s something really cool about knowing it’s a boy coming into the world and that I get to continue this amazing bloodline … Because there were some amazing men in my family and my father – as much as I didn’t get to know him – I know there were parts of him that were really amazing, that he would have … That do deserve to be passed on.
R: So what’s the ideal father? In your head?
G: I don’t know. I think … Maybe it’s the ideal human. It’s letting go of enough of your own baggage so that it doesn’t influence. I think my biggest … And maybe you can offer me some advice … I feel like everything that’s had a positive influence on me in terms of my character … It’s been the worst stuff that’s happened to me. So how do you impart those skills and how do you teach your son to be strong and to be empathetic and to be a compassionate person, to deal with pressure without having to go through those terrible things, and I think a big part of that is going to have to be me letting go of the need to control that space, and I’m sure if he’s anything like me or his mother he’s going to be a crazy little face in the wind kind of guy. Or he’s going to be a complete academic rolling his eyes at the two of us for the rest of his life … Excuse my parents, I’m so sorry. But I can’t wait. You never heard a cheer … Because at first we thought it was going to be a girl and I would have loved to have had a girl … Something in the back of my mind, having grown up in a female household I thought three daughters, definitely, that’s going to be my karma. But when the second scan came through and you’ve never heard such a cheer to a little scrotum … She jumped on board and it’s lovely, I’m so excited. And of course being a sporty guy I’ve mapped out the next 15 years of everything we’re going to do together.
R: And tell me something about the home? The physical home? What is your house like?
G: The funny thing is I literally just today signed my lease for my new flat. Sea Point and Cape Town living is not like Joburg where you’ve got your big expanse of homes. With me needing to be close to Sea Point and working the kind of hours that I do and needing to stay connected to Lindsey, we’ve got to kind of stay in this bubble and not planning to obviously have the child has meant a complete turnaround. So we’ve found a beautiful flat with a beautiful space around it, right next to the promenade. It’s free, it’s light, it has everything that we’ve been looking for under duress because I needed to do something now and I think for Lindsey the nest, the official term nesting, instinct has kicked in big time so she’s been desperate to feel settled and me as well, so it’s quite auspicious that we’ve actually connected today because I literally drove from the estate agent here, so I now thankfully have my new home for the next two years, that I think is going to make us very happy.
R: May you be enormously happy. And thank you for this conversation.
G: Thank you so, so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure meeting you properly.
R: Until next time. Goodbye.
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